Oscar Jofre  00:00

All right. Welcome back, everyone. Well, you know me, I can’t stop thinking of that presentation that Sherwood provided. Now I know all of you’re curious. Number one, yes, the session was recorded. And two Sherwood is going to make the presentation available. All of you should look at that presentation and utilize it not only for your funding platforms, for those in the ecosystem for companies, it’s working. It’s working, remind yourself of that. So now we’re into the exciting part, the funding portals, that’s where you go, this is one of those vehicles where you can go to, and my colleague, Peter Daneyko, is going to start us off Peter floors yours.

Peter Daneyko  00:46

Hey, thanks, Oscar. Coming out of that last session, everyone that’s involved in the crowdfunding portal space should be extremely excited as far as the opportunities going forward. Quick introduction here, I’m Peter Daneyko, with KoreConX. And my real main role is engagement and education between our KoreConX partners. We all know right now that democractization of capital, has provided access to a broader pool of investors. But what I find really, really fascinating right now is it also brought it yout expanding innovative crowdfunding platforms. And our guests today are on our panel. We’re hoping to have a number of other ones jump in. There’s some of those innovators, I mean, as innovative as the entrepreneurs that they service. The portals themselves are extremely innovative, as far as what they offer to both the investors and what they offer to the entrepreneurs. So they represent what I consider the best cross section of crowdfunding portals in the industry today. And we’re going to start and I’m going to have our two of our panelists have arrived already. Ravi and Marvin start with you, Ravi, if you could give us a brief introduction, and then we’ll dive in and go through some questions and answers for our audience.

Ravi Srivastava  02:12

Thank you very much, Peter. Hi, my name is Ravi Srivastava. And I am a one of the founding partners of Akemona. Akemona is a funding portal. It’s a funding portal that is a 100% based on smart contracts and issuance of digital securities. That’s a introduction. Back to you Peter.

Peter Daneyko  02:39

Although Marvin will swing over to you, and then we’ll dive into some questions.

Marvin Abrinica  02:43

Yeah, great. Well, welcome, everyone. My name is Marvin Abrinica. I’m one of the founders of Wunderfund we’re based in in Ohio in the Midwest, and we really look at the Midwest as one of the hotbeds of flyover country, where there’s great opportunities for entrepreneurs, especially around lifestyle businesses, Main Street, Community real estate, and sustainable technology. We really focus on social capital, and really trying to bring investment into impact businesses and create equity for all. And right now we’ve done over 30 different deals to date. And we’re excited about 2022, as, as we just heard in the previous session, so excited to talk with you all.

Peter Daneyko  03:26

Let me lay man, while we’re on that, you mentioned that it sounds like there’s an emotional connection with with your event with the investing community as well as the entrepreneurs. Can you maybe elaborate a little bit on that?

Marvin Abrinica  03:42

Yeah, absolutely. You know, in, in the United States, if whether you’re talking venture capital or private equity, you know, from the venture side, less than 12% of black LatinX women, and LGBTQ companies are funded by venture capital. And if you isolate, where those dollars are going to majority there’s the coasts. And then if you’re a small business, the reality is that there are the small businesses far exceed the number of startups if you will, that are out there. And a majority of them are not using or tapping into the banks yet. And a lot of this has to do with systemic structures that are keeping some people of color, the disenfranchised, from the ability to access that capital. And so we’re the way we see it is you have to level the playing field and democratization is one way to do it, that being crowd investing. And the other is really to drive it around social, social causes and a lot of social sustainability.

Peter Daneyko  04:45

What kind of social causes have you have you guys been involved with? I know that’s a big a big conversation every day.

Marvin Abrinica  04:53

Yeah, you know, there’s a lot of different things and you know, if you’re familiar with the UN’s Sustainable Development Goals, There are 17 different goals out there, if you Google it, it’s a really interesting, it’s really interesting kind of framework. And though when we look at companies and we vet companies, we’re always looking for companies that tie into things like, whether that’s green technology, whether it’s ending things like poverty, whether it’s job creation, all of these types of things that are going to lead to a better world. And so for us, it’s a key component of our strategy is to find companies like that. And then when we, when we apply that to how that looks in a crowd investing environment, you think about a lot of a lot of people who are underbanked, or, or people who cannot access the banks, for one reason or another. And like, for instance, you know, there’s a lot of people we talked to who are like black or brown, people of color, who are starting new businesses. In fact, black and brown founders far, and when it comes to small business, they’re there more majority of them are in the tech, not in the tech space, but more in the small business space. And so who’s really catering to them? And that’s one of the areas that we say, we look at, and we say, you know, those are some people that we need to tap into. And once we need to support?

Peter Daneyko  06:14

Well, then it gives, there’s such an underserved market, I think, is what you’re really saying for that investor community. Hey, I’m going to jump over to you, Ravi, and we’re going to keep going back and forth, and feel free to jump in at any moment. You’re in the tokenization world, and I’m not while I understand it being a crypto enthusiast, maybe you can give me how that plays into the crowdfunding. And from a social from the social side of it the Marvin was referring to does that does that fit in your initiatives? I think we’re on mute.

Ravi Srivastava  06:56

Sorry about that. So, you are doing pretty, very impressive job and we cannot even get anywhere close to you. So but our direction is when we found that it was mostly focused on technology focused on creating transparency and focused on empowering investors, because we believed that when we were setting it up and again, we are talking about tokenization because securities are generally held generally, in fact, they are always held in the custody of a broker dealer or a funding portal or a transfer agent. Also the investors at the end of the day do not have custody of their securities, we wanted to create a platform which will be an ecosystem which will be completely non custodial, which means that investor can hold custody of tokens in their wallet. And then once the restricted period of one year is over, they will be completely free, as long as they can find a buyer. They can exchange their tokens with the other buyer. Of course, the other buyer will have to go to the transfer agent get their KYC AML done make sure that everything was okay and the transfer agent will complete the transfer. But again, that’s no different than the way when you buy a car, you buy a car from the from the market and then you go to DMV to get it registered in your name. So, same thing. So, we we want to what we want to do is that we believe that we can, by leveraging this blockchain technology, we can empower the investors and put the power back in the hands of investor just power was taken away, because originally we used to have long time back, we used to have paper securities and paper securities used to be in the hands of the the investors and then the times changed and there is a whole story about that why, how the system was changed and then do with your customers, they lost that level of transparency, but now we have this opportunity to do that again. So, that what we are doing is we are putting the power and by doing that, we are going to be empowering business because businesses can go and to investors and say that yeah, you hold the custody in your of your investment in your hand. You can trade that. And, basically, if there will be full transparency on the blockchain, how many securities have been issued? How many funds were dispersed, everything is 100% tracked on the blockchain. So that was that concept we have implemented concept we in fact went live just about About two weeks, two weeks back, we have got certain issuers doing testing the waters. Marvin is far ahead, Marvin has done we haven’t done any offering yet, because we have just gone live, we expect to have our first offering go live in sometime in December,

Peter Daneyko  10:17

You’re part of that whole emerging ecosystem that we talked about, as far as the ecosystem being crowdfunding platforms at large, I mean, they’re becoming more and more and more diverse. I’m one of those guys that probably still has a few old share certificates. My daughter laughs and she’s a university grad that, that is empassioned and totally passionate about everything that you’re doing, Marvin, and it just tells me that there’s there’s a huge audience out there of investors, and it’s from all age groups, all demographics, what has been your experience with, with the adoption, from from, from the investors themselves coming into your portal?

Marvin Abrinica  11:04

Yeah, it’s, it’s a great question. You know, I think ultimately, investors are pretty savvy, and they know a good deal when they see one. And so, you know, I think it’s, it behooves a lot of portals like us to ensure that we’re doing the right diligence to find valuable companies, ones that have a viable product. And they’re able to showcase the best of what, what they provide there to the market. And so what will happen with that, as then, you know, when you have those companies out there, they’re the ones who tend to rise to the top. And from that, what we found is that, you know, there’s a lot of number one, there’s a lot of interest in deals in, in the private space, or private equity, space, smaller deals that will provide a level of liquidity and or an income stream back. And so we’re seeing a lot of that happen right now. I think the second thing is that, you also have to see that a lot of these investors are expecting a way back to get their money. So when I look at that, yeah, this is something that I think is really interesting, that Ravi is doing is that you’re providing a level of liquidity, whether that’s, you know, post one year, or three to five or 10 years from now, a lot of these investors want a way to, to pull their money out. And so you know, from that standpoint, I think that’s a really important thing for investors and communicating out to investors in our portal, what is the process for them to get their money back, and it’s something we always communicate and have our issuers communicating out as well. And the third thing I think, is really important about this whole thing is that, you all you have to remember that, you know, when it comes to investing in private companies here, crowd investing even is that we’re competing with investor investments in the stock market today. And, you know, the markets have been doing extremely well and very resilient over the last two years, despite COVID, maybe with the exception of last week or so. But you know, because of that, you know, there are a lot of discerning in terms of the types of investments and whether they should invest in companies on our portals. And so, it really behooves our companies, as well as our deals to be strong enough that they could stand alone as a deal, whether you’re doing it as a crowd, or you’re you would do it outside of the crowd.

Peter Daneyko  13:29

Great to hear that. I mean, I’m thinking out loud, you’re thinking to myself here, the investors, I think they’re looking for that, you know, that alternative exit or that alternative trading trading systems, and the technology is certainly evolving for that, and the platforms and everybody in the the design of the marketplace is starting to facilitate that. From from an outreach perspective, from the entrepreneurs. When they’re on when they’re in the portals, a lot of the entrepreneurs are asking that question go, what’s really involved? I mean, I think most of the most of them aren’t naive enough to say, let’s just put it up more, and they will come they recognize that there’s a lot of marketing that needs to be done in order to communicate with, with their potential to meet you to get their potential offering. So what both of you what’s your what’s your take on that? What would you recommend to that entrepreneur that’s coming into your portal?

Ravi Srivastava  14:30

So Marvin, you want to go ahead?

Marvin Abrinica  14:32

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think you’re absolutely right, Peter, you can’t. It’s not a field of dreams. You don’t just build it and people come, you really have to be dedicated to marketing these types of things. My background is, I was a brand marketer for one of major CPG companies Procter and Gamble for many years before I started this, and when I came into this with that mindset that you really have to gain impressions, if you will, or the cost per 1000 impressions and thinking about, like, what is your advertising strategy, which channels do you want to break into in order to get the word out with that, and then which targets that you want to, to reach out to. And so a lot of that has to do with doing your homework with understanding who your markets are, where there’s overlap between your product itself, that you’re, you’re providing on as an offering, but then also what type of investors were there and then finding that overlap, and being able to target them via different different advertising channels. And so with that, you know, we would always recommend really partnering up with some of the and there are a lot of great ones. Now, a lot of agencies that are focused on on investing and the finance space, one partnering up with them, but then to getting a really clear picture of who your target consumers are, from an investment standpoint, and ensuring that you have a good profile of who those people are, so you can reach them. So with those two things, I think those are like some things that we always look for when it comes to issuers who were dedicated to doing that, and willing to put some dollars behind it.

Peter Daneyko  16:10

No, and those are super great points. And I think the success of any raise, and there’s been some tremendous raises that have occurred recently, when Oscar talks about, you know, $5 million raises in three weeks. That happened, because there was a lot of upfront work. Yeah, there was great, you know, investor acquisition firms and advertising and marketing, and going through multiple channels and measuring, it’s no different than any e commerce site that’s selling them, you know, selling their wares or selling whatever services they may be selling on the web, you’ve got to market it. I want to welcome Josh into the panel here, Josh. We did some quick introductions earlier, perhaps I can just dovetail into you and say, Hey, tell us about about your platform and or your portal and let let our audience know what you’re all about.

Josh Chodniewicz  17:00

Great. Hello, Peter. Thanks for the invite, and for allowing us to join here, Marvin, and Ravi and others that are here. So I am with Fundify and we are a crowdfunding platform. Also, we’re we’re looking to build something where startups of any kind, raise capital, whether it be through equity, crowdfunding, but also through other avenues, we’re looking at all the different ways to help startups raise the capital that they want industry agnostic. Right now, we’ve got four live campaigns and 18 test the water campaigns on the platform. And we’re just going to building up we’re relatively new to the space here in the last year, it’s nice to meet others that are here as well, and would love to see how we can collaborate and think about things. I think also someone was mentioning what they did in the past I, I previously founded art.com, and allposters.com back in the days of when the internet was just getting started in ’94, ’95. We built that business we had 23 million paying customers and, and lifetime just shy of 3 billion in sales. And we hope to kind of take some of those learnings into this space and really make a difference in the funding world.

Peter Daneyko  18:13

So well, and I’m really, really grateful to meet you. And we’re so glad that you are here. As I think everybody’s agreeing that the crowdfunding business, and it is a business. It is just still in its infancy. And you guys are the leaders and what you’re doing and the ability to collaborate. You know what your competitors, you’re not competitors in other sense. But together, we all learned we all learn as a collective. Because at the end of the day, it is all about those consumers. It’s all about those investors. It’s all about those entrepreneurs that are looking for this new, a new fresh start. And the numbers are so exciting about what’s going on in the space altogether. You touched on you touched on the types of the broad spectrum of offerings that that that you look for. So I’m gonna throw this back at Marvin and Josh, Ravi just because they’re set up with the with entrepreneurs already. What types of entrepreneurs do you look for which types of entrepreneurs might not be ready for you right now? You mentioned the before they actually go on the [uncertain] test the waters maybe you can explain to our audience a little bit on that, Marvin?

Marvin Abrinica  19:37

Yeah, sure. Well, first off our target when when it comes to issuers or entrepreneurs who are looking to raise capital. First, we’re always looking for three different buckets. The first one is technology, but we have event that’s more around sustainability and social sustainability as well. So we’re always looking for companies that are meeting those types of goals whether they are black and brown founders, whether women, LGBTQ, or their product or service is oriented in some way around sustainability. So that’s one. And then the second area that we find is a lot has a lot to do with main street businesses, and main street businesses, which this what we really consider things like restaurant groups or breweries, ones that have viable businesses that are that maybe a second or third location. And they’re really trying to expand out their, their Main Street business and a lot of the those type of deals, bring liquidity to investors from that standpoint, like preferred equity, and so forth. And then the third area that we look at is we call community real estate. And real estate deals are always a nice welcome to any portal that’s out there. But it’s also a nice welcome to a lot of investors who are looking for ways to park their money. And what they would consider is relatively safe, it’s tangible assets. Those are ones that we would look at. And really, ultimately our goal from from that standpoint, wunderfund is we have this mantra. And it’s this whole vision that we can revitalize Mainstreet. And the way we do that is really by focusing on those types of founders, and what types of things that they’re they’re trying to do. So in doing that, you know, you you ask the question about testing the waters, we’ll certainly have a conversation with these founders. And then if we like what we see, and when they’re submitting their documentation to through our funding portal, if we like what they see, and we go through the first few stages of that, we’ll put it on there just to see what kind of interest is gonna be there for those companies. And, and that’s the power of that new that new stipulation or exemption is that you don’t have to, you don’t have to launch it without or with a with an ask, if you will, you can launch it. And then you can see what kind of interest there is for that product or service. And it’s good not only for the issuer, because the issue can really test to see if there is interest there. But it’s also good for us, because we use it as a way to then determine if this is a viable company that really is going to drive a lot of interest. So it’s good on both sides of that.

Peter Daneyko  22:15

No, great answer and I think super insightful, it really helps to, for that issuer to also, maybe they have a good a really good, a good offering, but their messaging is wrong. And that lets them you know, minimize their spend test the waters, so to speak from an advertising perspective, and recraft it and maybe that’s all it is. I mean, we’ve seen so many products and so many services were by was the messaging that that was the problem. Hey, So Josh, with you guys, when it comes to testing the water and the types of companies that you’re going after. Give me a summary of the the entrepreneurs that you’re having success with and the ones that you like, and the ones that you’re learning from it. I guess its all the above

Josh Chodniewicz  23:04

Well, one, I’ll say that I already really resonate with what both of you had said around test the waters, it’s a great opportunity to not spend all the capital and time on regulatory filings and, and get interest right and, and find out how that message is coming across to others. We are seeing opportunities that are across the board from movies to, you know, to mining companies to entertainment companies, technology companies. And in some cases, we’ll see a little bit of interest that turns into a little bit of interest on the test the water side, then to quite a bit on the live campaigns. And then others we get more interest on the on the preliminary side. But it is a chance for the founders to adjust their message, right. To talk about it perhaps a different way to to gain followings on their campaign rather just than just on their I don’t know, Facebook page or LinkedIn profiles right now they’ve got someone following a campaign, which is specifically about raising capital. And then you can talk to them about that on a regular basis. Right, we encourage that sort of updates on a regular basis to our startups, because then they and they can do that on the test of waterside as well as when they go live.

Peter Daneyko  24:27

We touched on a super, super important point that we hear all the time. And one of the one of that that is is that your first time investor, your ability to reengage that investor over and over and over again is all about communication. And if you’re not doing that, I think you’re really you know, losing that opportunity. We’ve all had, you know, we’re all investors ourselves and we’ve all reached out to the marketplace. And and when we don’t hear back, it puts a real sour note on us. So one of the messages that we’re hearing is and maybe you guys can shed some light on that is that ability to communicate with with your initial investor and then try to recapture them again and really stay engaged. I think that’s really important for that entrepreneur to know, it’s not a one time event.

Josh Chodniewicz  25:14

I think, I think that one time event would be the equivalent of meeting someone at an event like this and expecting them to invest right then in there, right, when you meet with them. And the reality is, they might have questions, which totally logically Could you send me? Can I review those financials? Could I take a look at the video that you created? Or do you have another video that you created? I’d like to understand your revenue model some more, all this, you know, types of questions that can come up who else is on your team? Right? What you couldn’t possibly know, if you just met one person at one time. So often, it takes multiple multiple interactions, investor with the startup in order to facilitate the actual investment, maybe on the first time, follow you. And they start wating your campaign looking into what you’re doing but that turns into the investments in the in a short period of time after that.

Peter Daneyko  26:04

No really good point. The entrepreneurs one of the common questions that we get, What’s what’s some of the different pricing models? RAvi. I don’t know if you’re there yet. 

Ravi Srivastava  26:20

We are talking about the pricing model. And the pricing model has to be we have to declare the pricing model. And your question is that how much do we charge from an issuer is that correct? Right, we have our pricing model is in it. And I totally understand that are the challenges because we have to put in effort first. And we cannot, if we if we are totally dependent on the success of the offering, then we are taking a big risk. So we just charge a small amount up front from the issuers. And that amount generally covers the basic the background check charges, some, some just basic concepts it covers, and then rest of that, and this is included in the for all 6% we charge. We haven’t in the future, we will add another 2% in terms of the securities which are issued on the platform, we haven’t added that. So we charge a fixed amount. And then at the close of the successful offering with charge six percent and this adopt front payment that was made will be included in the 6%.

Peter Daneyko  27:49

Okay, an upfront fee, and a percentage of the offering. I think, I think every entrepreneur that’s every issue, or that’s looking, they recognize that, you know, you have to spend some money in order to do do it effectively. But at the same time, they want to just you know, Where’s where’s their money going? And it’s in the best place. Marvin, what do you what are you doing with?

Marvin Abrinica  28:11

Yeah, you know, I think first, first and foremost, you have to think about, if you’re an entrepreneur, if you’re an entrepreneur, you got to think about what your cost of capital is, and what does it cost to get capital. And whether that you’re going through a bank or debt or even even from a standpoint of equity, and equity is, of course, the most expensive. Now, the nice thing about equity is that you don’t have to, it’s not on a service table that you have to start paying back right away. So, you know, that’s the first thing and so we always look at that at from the lens of what is the company trying to raise, and then what is their capital behind that. And so we charge I’d like, like ravi, we do charge, what we would call an underwriting fee. And that’s really just to make sure that there’s skin in the game. You know, you don’t want to work with people who who are just like kind of in it for, you know, kicks and giggles with with this type of thing. You want people who are serious about it. And so that underwriting process gives a lot of entrepreneurs a PPM, we file the Form C on their behalf. You know, my compliance officer is a regulatory attorney, my business partner in that and so, you know, we manage that on behalf of the issuer, so that they’re going to pay that kind of money to a lawyer anyways. And so as part of that, that’s the two parts of it is one is the underwriting piece of it. And then the second piece of it is the listing portion of it and that’s what that’s what goes into that upfront fee. And then on the back end, we charge anywhere from five to 8% on a sliding scale and a portion of that, you know, at least two to 300 pips our we have the option if you will on to choose to get that success fee in equity in the company, not not in in terms of 100 to 200 bits of, of the company itself, but more so of what the the same security that that is being offered in the deal. So that’s kind of how our model works, it’s worked very well for us. Because ultimately, we want to make sure the entrepreneurs are cash flush, you don’t want to be taking all of the money that they’re trying to raise in when it comes to that, you want to make sure that they have enough operating capital to get started. So that’s kind of how we operate.

Peter Daneyko  30:35

Okay, Josh?

Josh Chodniewicz  30:39

Our model on the finance side is really easy for the startups it’s fully success based. We, we charge seven and a half percent of the capital raised. And that can come in the form of cash or at closing for equity or a combo of both. Okay.

Peter Daneyko  30:57

Advice to checklist, that entrepreneur that’s saying, Okay, I’m looking at my, I want to look at the CF crowdfunding raise, I want to look at RegA raise, obviously, you guys are the crowdfunding space. And this is we want to want them to go but as far as differentiating Any, any, any thoughts or I’ll jump in.

Marvin Abrinica  31:24

Yeah, I mean, if you’re thinking about, Oh, go ahead, please. Go ahead.

Josh Chodniewicz  31:29

That’s okay. Good. You’re started. Good. Thanks Marvin.

Marvin Abrinica  31:32

Uh, yeah, you know, when it comes to checklists, you know, there’s certainly a checklist that we we provide our issuers, you know, and ultimately, at the end of the day, you really need to make sure one I would say is make sure you have a good enough product and or service that is out there, that’s you’ve tested it with your consumers or your customers, at least from a beta perspective, if you have an MVP, it’s always good to start with something like that, I think more and more investors are savvier in this space. And a lot of investors, you know, they want to make sure that there’s an opportunity for for exit, and there’s a lot of things that can go wrong in the early early stages of startups. So that’s the first thing, I think the second thing is really understanding the business plan and the financials behind it. This is just what I like to save the kitchen logic. I can’t even tell you how many times I’ve had conversations with founders who really don’t even understand, like how their company makes money. And, you know, as, as somebody with a finance background, I’m always digging into those questions, because I can tell whether they understand margins, whether they understand the unit economics of the company, and you know, real quickly, you can determine within five minutes, whether they have a solid understanding of their pro forma and what and through that pro forma what amount of money they need. So that’s the second piece. And the third advice, I would say, is really understand how you’re going to market the the offering. And there’s, there’s some people who will tell me, Oh, well, we’re just going to do all social. And I’m kind of like, okay, well, you know, do you have a presence on social media? And you know, well, no, not yet. It’s kind of like, well, all right, well, you can’t just do all social, you know, there’s a lot of other channels that are out there. And you know, and believe me, you know, my background was in consumer goods. And, you know, we did a ton of advertising when it comes, and there’s a reason why you call it omni channel, because you’re talking about everything from TV to print, and radio, and news and all those other things, and PR, etc. And so for somebody who tells me that, you know, we’re going to use Instagram. And that’s kind of our primary thing. It always raises red flag for me.

Peter Daneyko  33:45

Sure, I think I think we’ve all experienced that, you know, you can have the best bar of soap on the planet. But the consumer at the end of the day has to know why. And if you just and an omni channel approach from a marketing perspective, I mean, those are all the big considerations. I did want to touch real, real key point and then Josh, I’ll jump back to you, which was a regulated crowdfunding funding platforms, a lot of the invest the entrepreneurs out there, really think sometimes that the crowdfunding bucket is this one big bucket of myriad of places that I can just do this crowdfunding thing. It’s regulated, you must be you must be fully compliant. And you guys and to anybody listening out there, you really want to make sure that if you’re going on a crowdfunding portal, know know who they are, what they do, are they regulated? What’s your background? Don’t just think don’t put them all in the same bucket that they’re all the same. Guys agree there’s a few unfortunate cases out there that may not be opportunistic for that entrepreneur that’s didn’t do his due diligence. Josh?

Josh Chodniewicz  34:55

Well, certainly I would say that you’d want to work with a regulated platform. Right, I mean, you want to do things correctly, and the platform’s Fundify, others that are here, we’ll have many law offering our belts, right? We’re a startup does one, maybe they’ll do another one that’s consecutive in a year. But the reality, the platforms are the ones that understand how these things are going. And when they have questions, we know who to ask and, and where to go right along those lines. So along the lines of the question you were asking before around, you know, how do you go about or what do we recommend to startups for us, I really liked a lot of what Marvin was talking about. But also, as we think about that, think about how much you’re looking to raise, right, if you’re, if you can come in and save $50 million? Well, you’re going to go through a RegA offering, because that goes up to 75 million, whereas the RegCF offering only allows 5 million, you can add a reg D to add five to 10 million more on top of that, so you end up with a $15 million capital raise. But if you’re looking to raise more than 15 million, it’s going to be a RegA offering. And so those are something that maybe another point of contention or a thought might be I don’t have a financial I don’t have my financials audited, it will now create some different options that might be new, and perhaps I’ll create a roll in close or something of that, of that. Right. So, you know, I think that’s the way that that they’re thinking about this. You know, that’s the way we recommend at least to think about it. I just wanted to mention, I think Oscar is in the chat and maybe trying to move the the session not that I want to get off as I love being here.

Peter Daneyko  36:33

No, I think I think we’re, I think we’re running into our time slot here. So we’re gonna let we’re gonna I want to thank you all. It’s been absolutely terrific. It’s always insightful. And you guys are the the front runners and you guys are the, you know, the evangelists of of crowdfunding and again, after hearing the previous Sherwood’s data it is, I mean, you guys got to be excited, and I think the investment community and the investors, issuers should be really excited to about what crowdfunding has to offer. So again, I thank you all and have a terrific 2022 nd we look forward to the next summit.