Preparations 00:00 to 01:54

 

Matthew McNamara 01:55

No problem. Good afternoon. My name is Matt McNamara. I’m a managing partner, owner of assurance dimensions accounting firm here in the United States. We do work across the across the country, and as well as in Canada and other countries, IFRS and GAAP work. I used to work for Arthur Andersen and Grant Thornton, both international firms, and now have had my own firm since 2008. And we’re going to have a conversation today about cap tables and how it’s important to the companies, your company, companies that we audit and work with, and kind of some best practices and other opportunities to just improve your overall guidance or not guidance but regulatory requirements. And so could you introduce yourself a little bit and we can just chat about a little bit.

 

Amanda Grange 02:49

Thanks, Matt. It’s a pleasure to be here this afternoon with you. And my name, as I said is Amanda Grange and I am a transfer agent with KoreConX. And I’ve been with the company for a few years now. And it’s a great opportunity. Anytime we get to talk about transfer agents in the cap table process, as I learned quickly, that it’s a topic that a lot of people, especially CEOs do need to know about. And it’s a topic that doesn’t get talked about a lot. A lot of people really are in the dark about what a transfer agent does, what a cap table is, and what SEC is all about and all of those things. So I look forward to hopefully shedding some light on this topic a little bit and having some fun with a topic that it’s usually not so fun to talk about. And so we’re here, let’s so we’ll go ahead and just kind of jump right in, I guess.

 

Matthew McNamara 03:46

It’s a lot less fun to talk about with us when when our clients don’t have some sort of a cap table and they have a convoluted spreadsheet and or working with an attorney trying to track this information and so forth. I think it might be, I think it might be good just to chat a little bit about just the simple components of what’s tracked, what’s out there. And kind of, you know, the just the basics of it alone, we can get into a little bit detail later some of the complexities that can be handled. But, you know, I’ve worked with clients from, you know, multi, multi-million billion dollar companies all the way down to you know, a three person LLC that, you know, is doing a few things with their employees and phantom shares and things like that. So I think there’s a wide range of this need, and I think it’s at all levels. That makes it gives you some clarity and so forth. So maybe we could just start with a we kind of the basics of what’s tracked and what makes it so much easier to have online.

 

Amanda Grange 04:48

Exactly. And I like that you said that it’s important at all levels. It doesn’t matter if you’re a small company just starting out or a company that’s been around for many years. The cap table might not be intense or might not have as many investors on your cap table as a longtime company. But it’s still as important. The rules, the SEC rules and guidelines apply to all of us across the board. So it is important, I find a lot of startup companies will think, Oh, I’m not quite ready for that. And yet, it’s as important for you as it is for a company that’s been around for a long time. So I think it’s a great thing that we start with just the basis of what is cap table, what goes on a cap table, what should the CEO know and about the cap table? From my perspective, the cap table is what we manage as a transfer agent. So it is basically a list of all of your investors. All the different types of securities, which we’ll get into a little bit later. All the different types of shares that your investors have, and we itemize everything and keep an accurate count for you, is just the role of the transfer agent in terms of your cap table. So that’s just a general idea. Matt, what do you what would your thoughts be on your definition of kind of what the cap table is?

 

Matthew McNamara 06:18

Yeah, I think that’s, I think that’s, I think that’s huge. I think that’s exactly you know, what’s out there and what and what we’re ultimately trying to track and, and we were working a significant amount right now in the crowdfunding Reg A space. And we get to a point where we have to do certain levels of services for clients. And in most instances, these clients are starting off without a transfer agent, without a group, like you’re referring to, and it’s, it’s a struggle. Do you have to go back in time, dig through those records, find those records, and so forth. So like she’s noted there, there’s, it’s never too early to start. So it really getting started getting that process flow out there. So when it does come down to a year, 2,3,4 years later, when we’ve, when a lot of activity has happened that was kind of happening in the background, you didn’t realize what’s going on. For tracking, it’s clearly identified, the key documents are stored and related to those transactions. And it just, it makes things so much simpler. And really, from our perspective, if we talk to a client and we’re like, okay, is an attorney or a spreadsheet tracking your cap table? Or do you have? Do you have an automated cap table? Do you have a track with a transfer agent, it’s night and day from a pricing perspective of what we can expect from there.

 

Amanda Grange 07:47

And the cap table itself, like you said, is somebody just keeping track of it on a spreadsheet for you, that is how it used to be done. And the times have changed drastically in terms of being able to keep track of the cap table. And there are so many online platforms that allow you to have real-time access to what to your investors and your investments and how many shareholders you have and where you are, if you’re in a raise or just a company starting out, just be able to see everything real-time as such a great feature, if you’re able to get on a transfer agent and have an online platform.

 

Matthew McNamara 08:32

Maybe we can talk real quick. I mean, from my perspective, what we tend to run into a lot of times where either struggle and things of that extent are dealing with exercising of options, conversions of debt to equity, can’t just cancellation of shares or or sales and restructuring those and tracking. You know, okay, this this, share numbers now, this and middle of the track and show that effectively, you’re straight normal sales of stock. And then in the issuance, I guess the the ease of just the stock issuance process, maybe you can kind of talk about that Well, because that’s where really the those are the key areas that we run into that we’re looking at, we’re digging into trying to get to the detail level. And in a lot of instances, it’s kind of going through the file cabinets and those sorts of things versus a nice, easy solution that has everything at one right at your hands and right at your fingertips.

 

Amanda Grange 09:28

And it’s important for the auditors like you say for yourself, what you guys are looking for is accuracy and everything like you just mentioned right at your fingertips. And that’s not just important for the auditor, it’s important for the CEO and it’s important for the investor. If you have a platform that investors can log in, and they’re looking at their options and they’re able to say hey, my options, I should be able to exercise them so they’re on top of you as well. and getting in touch with the company to say what’s going on with my shares what’s going on with my options. And if you’re able to have a transfer agent that has a, your cap table on an online platform, those, it’s just so seamless in terms of the transfers, the process, from options into shares, like those procedures just happen a lot easier. And like you say, in the end, the information that is at your fingertips to give to your auditor just makes the going into the future to start new raises, or get approved. It just makes that process so much simpler.

 

Matthew McNamara 10:43

I think we had a previous conversation, I thought it was very, which was very interesting, around some research that you had done, about investors having this information like you do with your online banking. You have it on your phone, you have all these different things, your bank accounts there, your Amex card is there. You had some thoughts on, you know, investors whose stocks are available visible for vacancy, what they own it, what they do, and their level of reinvestment. When they might come to another round of financing, things like that, with them feeling like they’re involved in part of the company. Hey, I think it’d be I think it’d be really interesting to chat about that a little bit further, because that That, to me, was a really kind of eye opening comment and research that you had done.

 

Amanda Grange 11:29

Because just listening, I haven’t been a part of the finance industry for a long time, in terms of if I look back on, and you read about how investors used to invest in companies, before the online process, people were given a paper certificate, and those are things that have changed drastically. And most companies are their certificates, are E certificates. And so that means that when they they log on to a platform and see their investments, being able to log onto that platform and see their investment is the certificate in and of itself. So that has changed. And that when an investor can log in, and have real-time access to their investments, just through the process of going in and logging in to see your investment and being able to go oh, you know, I didn’t realize that my investment that I had this much in this company, whereas before, they used to get shoved into a drawer of your paper certificates, and you forgot about them if you even looked at them ever again. And so now with online access, it’s like your bank account, you’re not going to your bank and printing out a report like we used to print out of like, you’re just you want access right away, I want to log into my bank, I want to see where I’m at. And then it’s the same with your investments in companies, if you have the ability as an investor to log in, see your investment right away, then you’re more apt to say, hey, you know what, I think I might want to invest in this company again, and then. So a good platform will let you do that right away. As soon as you log in there is a lot of times there’s access to just do that. And there’s I just think that’s such a great feature to have not just for the investor for the company itself and for all future investments.

 

Matthew McNamara 13:22

Yeah, absolutely. I was very amazed by that. It’s true. I mean, even think about your you think about your having all this information available, you know, to your, you know, to your wife to your to your significant other that would say, Hey, here’s here’s what we owe. And here’s what we have your state planner, to really even spell a lot of that stuff out, because you’re right. I mean, having having stuff in a drawer somewhere in a same day or did forgotten about it really kind of keeps the company on the forefront. The investment on the forefront and keeps in the back of folks minds versus you know, in a safe somewhere.

 

Amanda Grange 14:00

And another thing investor, not just being able to go on to maybe reinvest an investor can go on and if you have access to that at anytime, anytime you want to just pop on and take a look at if you can get online, and then you have access now to say, Hey, who’s going to benefit from these shares if if I did pass away, right? So with an online service, you should be able to attach your beneficiaries to it. Or if you feel like hey, I want to transfer my shares to somebody, a good system is going to allow you to do that online and you’re not gonna have to reach out to the company or find that paper certificate. Real time access allows you to do so many things with your investment that I think in the past you wouldn’t have done. Like say we would have thrown it in a drawer or forgotten about it and and heaven forbid somebody passes away and then you’re like, what do we do with these shares now? So all of those types of things can be taken care of beforehand, and I think that’s a benefit to a good transfer agent, a good system that sometimes doesn’t even get spoken about. And people don’t even realize that that is such a huge benefit.

 

Matthew McNamara 15:14

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, don’t leave your shareholders in the dark, basically, you know, exactly. Which is great. I mean, I, when I was when we were asked to kind of chat about this a little bit, I really thought about it from a, you’re taking an old process of Excel spreadsheet, those sorts of old antiquated ways and moving it into a software system as a, as an auditor has been doing this forever. You know, we all know that every input has a potential for an error or calculate has a potential for an error within a spreadsheet. When you’re using a computer software, if you get it done, and you get it tested right the first time and it’s working properly, it works that way, every single time until something has changed, which really just adds a whole different level of control and accuracy to the process. So it really eliminates that spreadsheet and gives you confidence your cap table is accurate and current. I guess you don’t have to figure out different formulas, and you’re dealing out new round pricing or exit strategies, you’re able to have all that information there and available to you. And you’re not risking, hey, oops, I have one formula bad. And it gave me a whole different answer, then what I would have had said to me, maybe chat about that a little bit, just kind of that process and what that’s brought to the table.

 

Amanda Grange 16:39

And I think an online system has improved accuracy, like you said, tenfold, I think I can’t even imagine what it would have been like to have to manually enter and manually keep track of like those book entries. And to have a system that is kind of nothing is 100% foolproof, but I always say if I can do, the less thinking I have to do, the better. And all that means to me is that as long as I do not have to manipulate data, and I can take what I’ve gotten from the original broker-dealer or the original investments, the less I have to touch that and can just upload it onto a platform, the less errors will happen. And that is the beautiful thing about a platform that if you can find a place, if you’re looking for a transfer agent, and I would always advise to look for one that uses a platform that makes errors less and less. So the less human hands get into it, the less errors, I find there is more accuracy.

 

Matthew McNamara 17:54

And then you move from you know, basic cap table management to now we really need to do something with a cap table, which.

 

Amanda Grange 18:01

Exactly, and the beautiful thing too, sorry to interrupt, with a platform that is an online platform. It’s also real-time, I’m not sure if we mentioned that, or I mentioned that. And the beautiful thing about real time is that that means that not only is am I seeing it and being able to reconcile that what I’m uploading to the platform is correct. Your CEO or anybody else that has been granted access to that platform, from the CEO can see it real time. So and even an auditor can see the platform real time. And then you’ve got the investor is getting an invite to the platform to see their investment. If you have a system like that, that’s four different eyes, including your transfer agent looking at the same transaction sometimes on the same day. Which means if there’s a mistake, you’re gonna catch it. And I find that is such a beneficial thing that if you’re a transfer agent that is just having to answer it into a spreadsheet on your own, you’re the only eyes looking at it. And I always say the more eyes the better. And yeah, the online system.

 

Matthew McNamara 19:11

You know, you’re among cap table V six, and you shouldn’t be seven. Hey, this doesn’t tie out, Oh, I forgot I’m on V eight, you know, where you have all these different versions of an Excel spreadsheet. And I think we were just chatting about the basics of it and kind of just managing, you know, managing, you know, the cap table as you move through. But then when you get to a point of you’re looking for a round of investment you’re trying to model you’re trying to model the data to say alright, what are my different dilution percentages and so forth gonna be if we were to bring in this investment and do this and that. So obviously, those options are available and can be done, but you’re starting with a very accurate depiction of your cap table. We’ll even start that process. Because if you think about it, what we run into a lot of times folks are trying to do this or trying to get ready and be prepared for another round of funding. And they’re still stuck, still trying to figure out what was what they did they have, how many options do they have? How many warrants that I have outstanding? What kind of convert? Do I have? And what are those options? You know, what, how many carriers are out there preferred A, B, C, D, all these different factors. And to have all that already, then start your model and start the complex stuff. And you’re really starting at a great spot at the top of the mountain versus having to climb all the way there and then have to climb to that next level even after that. So maybe next step of like, Okay, now we’re getting you prepared to move to, you know, to move to the modeling to move to, you know, what’s this next round gonna do to us and how that would be helpful.

 

Amanda Grange 20:52

Yeah, the more accurate and the more information you have at your fingertips, and the quicker that process is going to be. Because you’re going to be able to give all of the accurate information not to your auditors, the SEC and your broker dealer is going to have all their information immediately. And, and the good thing about the transfer is not even just for going to the next level in terms of a raise, if you’re a company that’s growing and growing and growing, and now you want to go from being a private company to a public company, a good transformation and a good online system is going to help you get there a lot faster than you may have done if you were just doing it on your own or trying to keep your information. Just on like you say a spreadsheet, I think that the bigger you get, the more important it is. But like I always say, we all sometimes the big mistake some companies make is they start to get big, and then they want the transfer agent right when just before they need the transfer agent. So then they will reach out to find a transfer agent. And then that slows them down. Because getting all of that historical information accurate and ready to go is going to could potentially put your raise behind months, sometimes even more, because it’s a big process. If you’ve done a number of raises, and now getting ready to go on into another large raise or try to do a Reg A raise. And if you haven’t had a transfer agent along the way, it might, you might hit a roadblock you weren’t expecting. So that’s why I say the sooner that you can start with a transfer agent, the veteran is for you, if you really want to grow as a company, it’s pretty good.

 

Matthew McNamara 22:40

We run into that on a daily basis, we’ve done probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 to 50 audits for Reg A crowd funding last year, we’re doing you know, 20 to 30 Already this year. And that is 75, 80% of the time, that is the problem that we’re running into is being able to have that information, have it available, then at that point you’re working with your attorney spending attorney dollars back into the into the past and the history where if you’re just getting started, and you track it and do it now, a lot. A lot of services offer free services to smaller company, and things of that extent to where you don’t have to you’re not paying a bunch of money for this, there’s it’s a free service. Looking through it, and start early. Because ultimately, if you’re going to be a Reg A, you’re gonna do crowdfunding, you’re going to do go full blown public, you have to have a transfer agent, anyway, they don’t have a choice. So to be honest, be ahead of the game and kind of be planning your way through and get all the benefits of it. While you’re kind of getting ready for those next steps. It seems like a no brainer to me.

 

Amanda Grange 23:44

It does to me too. I kind of liken it to you get home, and you look at your place, and you’re like I want to paint my home. And everybody just wants the finished product, right and like, so CEO is just thinking, I’m going to do a raise, and they already want to be there. So, but if you’re not going to do the prep work first and set your foundation, which is whatever it is, if you’re taping putting down like you just really have to do that basic prep work. And if you do prep work and do it right, the paint job is going to look amazing. If you don’t do the prep work in the beginning and take your time to do that prep work, then your paint job is going to be a mess in the end. So yes, you want to do the next raise and you want to raise money and you want your company to succeed. But if you don’t do those basic things like making sure that your cap table is accurate, then yeah, it is tough to push through and not hit that roadblock when you want to do that and raise and a lot of times a transfer agent. It can be connected with like yourself, auditors, broker-dealers and so the relationships just kind of like connect together And then they can assist you when you are ready on different ways different people or companies that you can reach out to, to help you. And the biggest one, like we said, is stay within those SEC guidelines, a transfer agent.

 

Matthew McNamara 25:18

In the crowdfunding world, you better stay within those guidelines, because you’re that’s the world you chose to play in when you went down that path. So yeah, it’s extremely important. One thing, when we were chatting, we were chatting earlier, I think there’s a there’s a, maybe just an overall description of what kind of shares what kind of items can be tracked with the, with a transfer agent. Because I think even myself, I was like, Wow, all right, I didn’t realize all of these different types of, of items could be could be tracked within the cap table, different types, we chatted even a tiny bit about about crypto, or we talked about a number of different things down that path, maybe maybe we can maybe just listen for what can be tracked, and all these different things that folks are doing.

 

Amanda Grange 26:06

In terms of the different securities, pretty much anything can be tracked, which is like shares, warrants, options, we’ve talked all about those, all of those can be tracked. Promissory notes, the crowd SAFE, SAFE, all of that can definitely be tracked. But then I think where you’re going is shares versus the units or cryptocurrency and then are you able to track that. I would say a good platform will be set up to do that. And there shouldn’t be any reason why you couldn’t track that information, as well. Times are changing, you’re going to want to make sure that you have a transfer agent that can track all of the different types of currencies and like the cryptocurrency.

 

Matthew McNamara 26:54

As we continue to evolve, and it seems like a lot of groups are kind of ahead of the process there. So whether you do it now, or whether it’s something that might be done in the future, I think it’s I have that ability and that capability, it might not be something that’s even applicable right now. But it is something that can be can be done has to be tracked should be tracked if that’s a path that folks are going in and have a platform that can do that. And research is important.

 

Amanda Grange 27:23

And as an as an auditor, what are those specific things that you are looking for in a cap table to help somebody qualify or go to the next level?

 

Matthew McNamara 27:36

Well, I think you hit on, I think you hit on some really key points and you know, chatting through obviously, you know. Standard was a standard C Corp that you had just standard chairs, and you might have a preferred or a number of different rounds, which that would be your standard company that we would automatically be like, okay, yes, you need, you need to have a transfer agent. Because you’re on your preferred share, you know, round D, you know, and that was kind of a no brainer that it was time to get in and have a transfer agent in place. But what we’re finding now is clients are moving to using safe agreements, they’re using other innovative ways to, you know, to incentivize their employees. Especially, especially if you’re in a startup mode, and funding isn’t, isn’t there for significant cash bonuses. So you’re seeing, you know, Phantom shares, you’re seeing warrants and options and, and a bunch of different incentive type units out there that, you know, get everybody you look at debt options. Where folks are receiving warrants for financing, things like that are important to be able to provide, really what is that fully diluted entity look like. And that’s what you ultimately need, when you’re gonna move to that next round, or you’re trying to invite entice a large investor to come in, you need to be able to present here’s everything I have out there and what I do for a living, it’s, it’s all about risk. And that when we’re looking at a lot of startup companies, that is the biggest risk, do you have shares? Do you have units? Do you have incentive units? Do you have other items out there commitments that you’ve made, that I don’t know about or doesn’t know about and all of a sudden, you have a new investor. And they put a significant bit of money in and all of a sudden options are coming out of the woodwork or warrants for different documents are coming out of the woodwork. They’re like, wow, oh, I forgot that. I gave that to him five years ago. And it’s me as an auditor, that and as a CEO, that’s your risk. Because when that happens, that’s when the attorneys get involved and none of us want to have to deal with the deal with those sorts of situations where the attorneys involved to say, Hey, you didn’t you didn’t disclose what you had. So to me that’s, that’s the Biggest thing I focus on. And so reduce my risk. That’s where I want my clients to be on these sorts of platforms. So we, we know that we have a client who’s tracking this stuff and really has good accurate cap table.

 

Amanda Grange 30:14

That’s why a good online system will give you a snapshot of all of that in one go, if and then, you know, so if an auditor comes at you, if you have a good snapshot of your whole cap table, which is all your securities, you can send that right away. And you know, where you’re at, at any time and with everything. So there’s no question about your options and or that, like, you just said, Oh, my gosh, I forgot about that. That’s the one thing as a transfer agent, you want to give that security to the companies just to know that at any time, they can log on and see where they’re at. It also helps to if they’re if people are in the middle of a race, and you’re using an online system, you’re going to know where you’re at in that race at any time. So you’re going to know if you’re coming close to hitting your mark and staying with it within the guidelines of that. And some people don’t realize that as well. It’s not just for your history of what you have. It’s what’s coming in real-time in the middle of a race to and it’s very important for that for a CEO to be able to know. Right, in real time where they stand in the middle of a race.

 

Matthew McNamara 31:28

Absolutely. We’ve had it. We’ve had clients before that have oversold their raise, and then you’re going back and say no, i’m sorry. They weren’t real. We exceeded our authorized share limit, or the amount that we were authorized to sell. And here we have to give this money back. And that’s, it’s embarrassing. It’s something that you as a, you know, as a, as a company selling, selling your shares. We we chat a little bit, I think I think I know we’ve been chatting a pretty good amount here and probably about to shut this down. But what about, it’s like the background. So obviously, you talked about an investor that can go out and look and see what they have. But what about the background support for, hey, we issued, you know, 100,000 options to you know, Sally. Having that backup and that support, like an uploadable area to store those agreements and things like that how to flow in to where. You know, someone like me comes in and says, Hey, I want to see that support, or the detail with her or his is where how does that work?

 

Amanda Grange 32:38

That’s a great question, great questions. A good system will allow an investor not just to go in and see their investment, but actually see their subscription agreement alongside of it. And if you can have that subscription agreement attached, not only is it attached, it’s downloadable. If you have a system like that, that is so great, not just for the investor themselves, but also for the CEO, they can see all the subscription agreements as well. So and those are things that a lot of times got lost. And so you forget what the agreement was, especially for your options. And so then you have all that information at your fingertips of when those options expire. If they’re vesting, it’s such a great system, if you can get a good online transfer agent. That’s a that’s a great point.

 

Matthew McNamara 33:31

Well, I think those are the areas to or if you think about it, it’s you know, whether you’re a small company, that’s that’s really where you’re when they only have a couple people in the company that are doing readings, you can just go and upload that document right then. And it’s not someone’s file somewhere, or someone who ultimately you had them doing it, and they laughed, you know, they were you and they and then they left and it’s all uploaded, it’s all there. It’s always accessible. And you’re not like, oh, well, that attorney is no longer in business. And they had all my documents. I mean, I can’t tell you how many times we’ve had to go back and have documents redone and gets looked for things because they weren’t put in there. And to me, that’s where the you know, that’s where the new company, the small company can just start ahead of the game and have all that stuff there haven’t locked and loaded and not have to not have to go hunting later. And the file cabinets are from a employee and is no longer with you or something like that to get, you know, to get all the key information.

 

Amanda Grange 34:35

And a good system also for an investor is also they will be able to see all of their investments at at one time not just go to a filing cabinet and have to kind of add up what they think they have if they’ve invested in one company more than once. If you’ve got a great system, they’ll be able to log in and see everything all together and And that’s and a good transfer agent will, you’ll be able to transfer those, like I mentioned before, but it’s just like that bank account when you log in, and you’ve got real time, you might have four different bank accounts with a bank. And you, you want to be able to see all of them, you don’t want to log in and out, log in and out or go to a different file or, or file folder to find what you have. If you can get into a system where you can see everything in one snapshot it I just think it’s so beneficial, not just the company, but to investors as well.

 

Matthew McNamara 35:36

No, I agree. And if you think about it, actually, it’s think about your employees, think about your executives that are part of the process. I mean, we continuously strive and try to show our employees like, what have we done for you? Well, look at all we’ve done, here’s your comp, here’s your bonuses, here’s your benefits, here’s all these different pieces. So imagine if you do have, if you do have all this information available, and your employees who might own some shares, they might ask you, they could see what their options are, they could see other incentive units, things to that extent, where they can actually see that in real time. And once again, it’s not that cabinet, that’s somewhere gathering dust, it’s you can really see that you can present that to your employees, and have them continue to see how you’re investing in them, and in their careers and for CEOs, just how much do I have in this thing, you know, here’s how much shares I have here warrants for debt that I contributed, and here’s, you know, options that I have, for my services I’ve provided, those sort of things are really a really a big deal to CEOs board, you know, and and be able to present that stuff to your employees. But I guess, kind of circles back all to the final answer, especially if you’re going down this crowdfunding path as to, you know, what is the SEC require? What do you have to do to stay within those within those guidelines. And that is the biggest thing for the new company, they young company, the entrepreneurial folks that are really really good at what they developed and what they created. There, you know, we deal with ton in the med tech space is brilliant doctors and, and people that are inventing these just amazing instruments and, and things that are going to be available to you to the public and to the health community. They’re not necessarily, they’re not necessarily wonders that a cap table and all of the background stuff that needs to happen behind the scenes to support and manage that to manage that company. So if you’re out there wondering if you’re within the SEC compliance, or if you actually can put a stamp on it and say, Hey, I outsource this, this is not something that I’m that I’m going to I have a PEO for my payroll, I have a transfer agent for my yo for my you know, for my cap table, sit down, taking those things that take a lot of work, have legal compliance issues, and handing those to someone who’s really, really good at it and having the appropriate level of items in there and steering you down that path, I think is critical and maybe very good. Last minute.

 

Amanda Grange 38:22

Yeah. And a lot of times, the SEC guidelines, they are guidelines, there’s policies and procedures that they put in place and people forget, they’re there to protect you. It’s like lions on a road, they’re there to protect you the medians there to protect you to stay within it, because of what will happen when you go outside of those lines. And a good transfer agent, or an online system will help you stay within those lines. They’re there to help you so that you don’t there is no ever saying, Oh, I’m not sure. I wonder if I’m within those guidelines. If you have a good transfer agent. They’re doing the hard work for you. And they will ensure that you’re staying within those guidelines. And there’s many, many policies and procedures within the SEC. It’s kind of like the golf rulebook. And so I don’t think any CEO wants to spend their day reading through those policies and procedures, but it’s important that they know them and that they have people that they can rely on that to know what those policies and procedures are and making sure that they are staying within those guidelines. So that’s where the transformation like you said does come in so that you can put your head on the pillow at night and know that you’re staying within those.

 

Matthew McNamara 39:48

And you’re right that box is checked.

 

Amanda Grange 39:53

It’s a big one.

 

Matthew McNamara 39:56

That’s huge. I think it was great. I think it was great. conversation has some good background as to why it’s important to the you know, to the process and important to companies and whether they’re small, whether they’re large, whatever that might be. Really appreciate the time this afternoon.

 

Amanda Grange 40:13

Yeah, it’s been a pleasure. Thank you, Matt.

 

Matthew McNamara 40:16

All right. Hope everyone everyone listening has a great day. Yes. Thank you.