How Do I Get Noticed for My RegA+ Offering
CEO and Co-Founder
CEO and Co-Founder
Oscar is currently one of the Top 10 Global Thought Leaders in Equity Crowdfunding, a Top 5 Fintech Influencer, Top 10 Blockchain and a Top 50 InsureTech. He has published an eBook that has been downloaded in over 20 countries, and been distributed by partners worldwide. Oscar is a featured speaker on Fintech, regulated, equity crowdfunding, compliance, shareholder management, investor relations, and transparency in the USA, Australia, UK, Germany, France, Netherlands, Canada, Singapore, Indonesia and China. He speaks to audiences covering alternative finance, RegTech, insurance, banking, legal, and crowdfunding. Oscar also advises the world’s leading research, accounting, law firms and insurance companies on the impact Fintech, RegTech, LegalTech, InsurTech and OrgTech is having in their business.
E5A Integrated Marketing
Andrew Corn is the CEO of E5A Integrated Marketing, a systematic, data-driven investor acquisition-focused agency that assists firms with raising assets or capital, engaging in outreach to prospective shareholders or clients, and launching new products. His experience spans several industries, including advertising, marketing, software development and investing. Previously, Andy was the CIO for E5A Funds LLC, a firm specializing in alternative investments and after-tax alpha strategies. He also served as CIO for equities at Beacon Trust Company, CEO of Clear Asset Management, and SVP for Corporate Marketing for TheStreet.com. Prior to that he was EVP Digital for Citigate which purchased his software firm MasterApproach and was the CEO/Head of Strategy for the agency Admaster Communications.
Andrew Corn 00:00
See Tom and Sarah are speaking for down. Oh, yeah, yeah,
Oscar Jofre 00:05
yeah, yeah, I saw that. I saw that. Yeah, we’ll talk to you. Yeah, I saw I got the All right. Kay. So all right, let’s say let What is the time? Well, one more minute and we will get started. It’s, yeah, there is some issues going on with zoom right now. So not it’s not zooms fault. It’s just upgrades with these new privacy’s. It can take some time, if you can believe it, it can literally take up to three minutes just to login, some people get in some time, some don’t. My first meeting this morning, somebody, it took them almost almost 10 minutes to get in. And you could see their name spinning. So it’s pretty exciting. All right, well, let’s get going. So great to be here. Once again. Good morning, everyone. And welcome to the KoreSummit webinar series 2021. My name is Oscar Jofre. And today, I’m going to be joined by two leading experts, but one of them is playing a ghost, the other ones here, which is good. You know, our format, it’s really, really simple. We’re going to be talking for about an hour, 45 minutes, just kind of going back and forth, no PowerPoint presentation skills, hearing good, old fashioned, how you would normally interact with a company when you are engaging with them. And obviously, all of these videos are going to be available for you at the KoreSummit.io, your website, so you can go there at any time to review them. So it’s pretty exciting. This is a topic that often comes up in all the discussions, I think it’s the one topic that it’s a top of mind for everyone every single day. And that is, how do I get noticed for my RegA offering. I mean, it sounds simple enough. But as this, these experts will tell you. It’s it does sound simple, but that simplicity that they’ve done. So before we get started in topic today, let’s introduce our panelists who has been here before. If you don’t know him by name, we call him Royal landru. And sir, the floor is yours. We might as
Andrew Corn 02:42
well have some fun, I’m sure. Absolutely. Good morning. Again, my name is Andrew Corn, I am the founder and run E5A we are a systematic data driven investor acquisition firm. So this topic is down the center of our fairway we got our start actually working on financial products exchange traded funds, mutual funds, hedge funds, private equity, real estate, etc. And then as the JOBS Act evolved, we got into reg D, and then RegA plus and then now that reg CF is moving up to 5 million we are jumping in on quite a few CF saw already. Yesterday, I reported three today I could report for. So as we had another contract signed yesterday, we are limited to the number of clients that we can handle simultaneously. So that’s an interesting thing, and does allow us to be fairly selective in who we’re working with. So we seek companies with a high probability of success based on having great ideas and strong management. So there we go.
Oscar Jofre 04:01
Thank you. So it’s, we’re gonna have a fun time, obviously, until our next colleague arrives. You know, I’m gonna put you on the spot, Andrew, and you, you and I think it’s great for everyone to know that, regardless of what one does, I think it’s important that before we dive directly, how do I get noticed? So let’s talk about this new sector that emerge. And it’s been coined, nicely investor acquisition, because, you know, for me personally, as an issuer as a company looking to raise capital. If you mix the two up there, there really are two different and I was wondering if you could just let’s cover that part. And then let’s we’ll dive into the different tactical elements and I hope I correct, characterize them correctly. And you can you can call me.
Andrew Corn 04:53
I’ve been waiting for a forum to discuss this. So yeah, and it’s something I’ve written about So, essentially, marketing is the big umbrella of what people think of how they’re going to attract investors. And I frankly use the fees, face to the first part of my career was in marketing, I started my career writing IPO roadshows and designing them and have worked on hundreds of them. And that was in my 20s. So eventually, I ended up selling that firm. And making the long story short, developed a multifactor model for stock selection, became an equity portfolio manager, a chief investment officer and designed to exchange traded funds, and also ran a small hedge fund. And, of course, more traditional portfolios more on institutional level than retail. And essentially, what happened is I learned all about performance measurement, and love things that are measurable. So when getting back after leaving asset management and coming back into the big marketing world, decided I only wanted to work on things that are measurable. And things that are measurable are things like assets under management, or the number of investors acquired for an offering, and the amount of money that they’re putting in individually, and then what the median is. So, you know, we can talk about marketing, which is great, which includes brand awareness and getting people understanding that, gee, this is a company, this is what it does, it’s got an offering in the marketplace. And all those things are part of what we do, but we measure ourselves by the number of investors who come into the actual click the invest button and complete and send their money in. And that we refer to as investor acquisition. So that is a phrase that we coined about a year ago, and is one that we’ve been trying to get out into the mainstream, not only to differentiate ourselves, but others who are really focused on the final end result, which is investors that have placed money and who were for real.
Oscar Jofre 07:26
Yeah, and that was great, because it kind of gives everyone an overview of this heading. And people can now start to ask of that of any vendor or any participant, some to make sure that they actually understand there’s a distinctively big difference. Another element that I would add to what you said is that, you know, it does look a lot like the market, it does fall into that. But it’s got one particular different twist to it, is that the regulatory element, right? We can’t overlook that that is something that gets coupled together, would you not agree?
Andrew Corn 08:02
I do agree with that. And the regulatory element is super important. And we enjoy very close ties with a bunch of the leading law firms from a compliance perspective, and also, you know, the series 20 for the compliance people at leading broker dealers. And, you know, we, and we speak about this a lot to clients and prospects is that we write compliant copy all day long. Now, on the flip side of that, we also know the regulations really well, we’ve had FINRA as a client on again off again, and people will then say, gee, does that mean that you’re always writing things a certain way? And the answer to that is no, we know where the regulation is, we know where it ends, we know where that CUSP is. And we push it, we push it as hard as we can, because we want to do the best for our clients as possible. And when you’re looking at creative copy, one needs to know how to phrase it so that it will pass compliance or cause a discussion with compliance of what what the intent is, and where you’re going with it. And then what’s behind it. So when writing an ad, and there needs to be the knowledge that if clicked, what they’re going to say, or if there’s an ad, does it have a rollover, that’s going to give a disclaimer. So there’s a bunch of ways of approaching it. And understanding the way compliance works actually allows you to be more creative rather than putting up walls. Because once the playing field is understood, you know, we know a football field is 100 by 50. That is what you’re going to play in and you know what out of bounces, but that doesn’t mean you’re not going to throw the ball really close to that lawn.
Oscar Jofre 10:01
But it’s a very interesting perspective. But it is the big, I think it’s that along with the tactics, or techniques, we’ll get into that. But the regulatory element, I think it’s a big differentiator, you and I’ve spoken to many providers in the past that want to enter the market, oh, I do marketing, I can do email blasting all that. And initially, you know, that’s the easy part that seems to be like the the final execution. But the real key to it, where investor acquisition really differentiate itself, that that particular company understands that that message could have a regulatory implication on the company that everyone involved in could land people in a bit of hot water.
Andrew Corn 10:44
Why? Yeah, so there’s, there’s a bunch of parts of this. So one of them is, is that we work very closely with PR and social media firms, we frequently will help produce a lot of the content behind it, when we are working with an issuer, we will put together a messaging platform, which isn’t final copy for anything, but really gets to the heart of what the messaging will be. And we share that with other partners who are working to promote or acquire investors. So PR is something that’s super important, getting press getting adding credibility, etc. And if you’re in Forbes and fortune, and Yahoo, finance, excuse me, and Market Watch, and the journal and Barron’s, that’s all great. But don’t expect a link from the offering page to any of those articles. Because compliance will never allow it. That doesn’t mean that those logos are not useful, and that those articles can’t be linked to from a corporate site that isn’t part of the offering. So understanding those nuances, and then how to leverage them and where to leverage them and how to work with partners is really important.
Oscar Jofre 12:00
Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s the best. In other words, the funnel is the best way to make sure that you don’t get a Knock knock. And what you’re doing. It is you get full general solicitation, but it there are rules. And I think the reason I’m spending a little bit more time on this, because obviously, you know, we should have said, I think you said at the beginning, for those that are here and listening, and of course on March the 15th, you can raise up to $75 million using Regulation A I mean, that is a significant amount of capital. And so what does that mean, a lot of companies will be entering. And we’re clearly all embracing that that is a measure of success. And this is where we’re getting to, but it comes with a discipline everybody needs to understand and why that’s important. Because the companies ultimately could pay the final price if something goes wrong. And it will trickle down. Believe me, it’s nobody’s going to escape the FCC is my little whip. But nobody wants to do that. Because it will be kind of a this black mark that we all don’t want, right? We all want best practices, we have an ecosystem that is fluid, everybody works and understands how every entity does. So I wanted to spend that time, you know, making sure the audience understood. It’s not just a word. It’s not like Investor Relations, or this is investor acquisition. It’s a very thoughtful process that has a regulatory flavor to it.
Andrew Corn 13:36
That way, yeah, it is all about process. Essentially, how do you decide who you want to come and look at your offering? Then how are you going to get them there? And then if you get them there, how many times do you need to get them there? What types of materials to they need to review before they’re going to say? Yes, I’m willing to click the invest button. And then once they click the invest button, what are you going to do to convince them to Donald Lee finish filling out the form, but also send their money in through debit card, credit card, a CH? What however, they’re going to do it that final step without it then everything you did up until then is a waste of time. So we spend a lot a lot of time on data and figuring out who we want to go after and why. So you know, there’s an old philosophical question if a tree falls in the forest and no one’s there to hear it to to make a sound. In investor acquisition, we say not the right question. if a tree falls in the forest was the right person there to hear it. Because if it’s not the right audience, we don’t really care if it made a sound or not. Because you can jump up and down and show People under 18, your product which they may be really interested in and might even purchase, depending upon if it’s a consumer product or not. But they’re not old enough to invest. might they be an influencer for their parent or guardian? Yes, but they are not truly the target audience. So we spend a lot of time looking and segmenting data to make sure that, first of all, that we have a large enough audience to solicit. Because if you were doing let’s say, a $20 million offering, and you’ve got a minimum investment of $2,000, you’re still going to need 2000? Excuse me? At least 1000 investors to fill that? Or is it 10,000 investors to fill that? anyway? The having that number is super important, because then you need to determine is it even a viable offering? And that’s one of the things we do very early on, is go through that math on the back of the napkin, to make sure, gee, is this even doable? Because we don’t want to set off on a path that’s unachievable for us or for an issuer. So we have developed a very strong set of data of investors, it is approaching a million, I’ve stated before, we will reach 2 million by the end of the summer. And that essentially, are people who invest in profit companies, many of them are accredited, the bulk of our current list is accredited. So we can start with that. But then what we’re looking for is what we refer to is niche at scale. So if it’s a medical device, what is it fulfilling? And if it’s fulfilling something aimed at a specific audience, how large is that audience? How many of them have suffer from whatever the affliction is, that will be cur cured? You know, I learned early on in my career, that, you know, if I’ve got a little rash right here, and it doesn’t edge, how much am I going to pay to get rid of it? If my back hurts, and I can’t sit and I can’t stand? How much you’re going to pay to make it so I can sit and stand. And there’s an enormous gap between these things. So understanding the pain point, and where that is, is super important. So if we wind up and say, gee, there are 10 million people who have this issue, and knowing that they’re adults, some of them may have spouses, some of them may have families, some of them have parents, some of them have friends, we’re now looking at a core group of 10 million plus influencers all around them. That’s very large group that totally works. Now the question is, how do we acquire data on them? Oh, but they’re going into the healthcare market, who takes care of that, or they’re specialists or their doctors or their practices, or their technicians. All of these people end up being influencers. And as we acquire this data, we start sharing our thoughts, and this data with our friends in the PR world and in the social media world, because we want to be working in concert. So when someone hires a firm like mine, they’re not hiring me. They’re hiring a process. They’re hiring an ecosystem. They’re hiring a team, but the single most important thing they’re hiring is a focus on data and focus on process to make sure that you can achieve your end result. Sorry, I want another half. No,
Oscar Jofre 18:44
no, no, no, no, that’s good. No, no, what I want to do is I want to focus on where we started, you know, investor acquisition, it was really good. We broke it down. But it’s, you know, it is, you know, it is under the umbrella of marketing with the bud with a component of a regulatory process that distinguishes its differentiation completely. It’s good to have a couple of bolt, but now let’s talk about some of the specific tactical elements. I hope I use that word correctly. If not, you want to call it goals. Correct. Okay. Tactical elements, because it’s important that everybody understands, there are a number of them so and so you already started talking about them. So let’s talk about some of the obvious ones that let’s talk about video. So what you know, I want to I’m going to go through each one. So so let’s try to make sure that we capsulate the the importance of video investor acquisition and tying it into everything we’re talking.
Andrew Corn 19:45
Sure so video is super important. There is video in every offering that we’ve worked on. Some of them are kind of homemade. Some of them are extremely professionally made. Some of them are 100 percent animated. So we are launching the RegA plus campaign a couple of weeks. And with that it’s a very complex company what they do, it is super important what they do and involves so US military, and also aerospace and private aviation. And the whole thing’s taking place in an opportunity zone. So there’s tax benefits. Oh, and they’re a small designated small business stock. So there’s more tax benefits. So we looked at all this and looked at what we could photograph what we could do a video shoot on, we decided we would go completely automated on this, because we could work through the various facets of this company. We have another company where we’ve got very dynamic management, and they do super well on camera. So we ended up shooting, essentially a talking head video, where they’re explaining what’s going on this and you can feel their passion. So depending upon, there’s a lot of factors to determine which way to go. But without a video, you are going to be losing a certain number of people who come to the offering page, and want to hear and see without having to read and dig in too deep. And if I can just back up because we’re talking about video, before we even get to video, we get to touch points. And this is something that you are an expert in ox Oscar even though you’ve may have never thought of it this way. But you have recently completed a reg D offering. So when you spoke to someone, how many conversations did it take to convince them to write a check? What was the substance of those conversations? Each one of those was a separate touch point. Was there an email in between? Was there a quick phone conversation in between? So did it take for for some people and eight for others and 16 for maybe even others. So what are the outliers here. So understanding those touch points, then really informs a lot of the tactics that a firm like mine performs to make sure that we’re able to bring investors on a journey from unaware of you to where the structure what they’re investing in the company, its history, the product, the market, its addressing, all the way to digging in deep to then allocating money, and then hopefully telling friends and family about it so that they may invest as well. So that investor journey and the touch points combined, then inform us to what tactics we want to deploy.
Oscar Jofre 22:52
So the Okay, so each obviously, every point is going to be different there. Because there are a number of tactical Island elements and that’s what you’re journeying us through. And that’s good I what I’m going to try to do is horn ourselves in a little, because I have a surprise coming in for you. You thought you were just gonna, I was gonna let up now I got a surprise for you. You know me if I don’t spark it up, I mean, level up. Sorry, level now.
Andrew Corn 23:21
I love surprises. So you know,
Oscar Jofre 23:23
of course. So Alright, we talked one tactical element video, I know you’ve touched on others. But now tell, you know, briefly again, email marketing, this is a another tactical element that companies can utilize to get to just give an overview of that, and then we can output it.
Andrew Corn 23:41
Sure. So email marketing is greatly misunderstood. People say I got too many emails, I’m not interested, I don’t want them. A lot of them go to my spam folder. So first of all, emails still one of the most effective media out there. And we use it in multiple ways. We use it at the very beginning. Because once we’ve identified data, we can get precision data on people, find publishers with double opt in relationships with them, and send them email from a trusted source. So if your if core was our KoreConX was our client, and you send out an email, it’s going to have a certain open rate. If the Wall Street Journal sends it out, talking about a trusted partner is going to have a different open rate, because they have a double opt in relationship and people are used to receiving emails about other companies from the journal. So I’m just using the journal as one example. Then here’s the next thing. Let’s say someone reads an article comes to your page and then goes to the offering page about 25 to 40% of the time. We actually tag them in through that tag, reverse that into an email address, and then send them an email to invite them back to that page. So remarketing is what that’s called. And we use that extensively. Now, what ends up happening is, we shut it off, if someone clicks the invest button, then they won’t receive that. So this is part of the marketing automation process that has to do with the touch points. Another place we use email is for people to click invest, but they do not complete their investment, we’re gonna start sending them emails, inviting them back to complete their investment. And then depending upon the type of offering, we may not even send them back to the offering page, we may send them right back to the button, or we might send them someplace else where we’ve set something up just for that group. One another place, just thinking out loud, of where we’ll use email is, we refer to these people as clusters, we end up with a cluster of people who have been to the offering page, but they’ve not clicked in best. And we may set up a webinar for them. And we’re going to advertise to them as well as sending email, or we have a cluster of people who have clicked invest but haven’t completed. Again, there may be a webinar for them. Or we might invite them to a one on one with the CEO or an investor relations person or the chief technology officer or something else. And we might do that anticipating a webinar. And we’re using that to see what can we get from a content standpoint. So there’s a lot of ways that we’re using email, it’s not just simply, you know, spray and pray as they call it. And that’s something that we never do, because we’re always starting with, we know that they’re part of this mass niche audience, or that they are active Lee, an investor in private companies. So they’re already going to be in one of these two data groups. So our open rates are always going to be higher, and our click through rates are not only going to be higher, going to be of higher quality as well, because they’re fulfilling that initial data. more information than you want it. No, no, no, listen,
Oscar Jofre 27:26
I know it. Look, we’re trying to, I think for the audience, I just want to make sure you know, investor acquisition is all one area, but it involves so many different tactical elements. And they’re all interlinked, but I want to make sure they understand what each one is real.
Andrew Corn 27:40
And we could do a whole hour just on email, because I get into the precision of our testing patterns. You know, people are often surprised when we submit 20 email subject lines for compliance approval all at once. It’s like, well, aren’t you going to test them and then measure and optimize? Yeah, but we’re gonna need at least 20 just to start. So there’s an awful lot of work that goes into this and planning. And we want to go back to compliance in a very measured way and sparingly, because, you know, we want them on our side not to be an annoyance. So because she went to group things, and also make sure that we have lots of ammunition for as we’re pivoting. And as we’re optimizing which direction we’re going to go in. So,
Oscar Jofre 28:34
okay, so they’re not our tactical domain, because I got to keep in mind 1234567. So and I still got a special guest that I want to bring in, because I think he’ll he’ll kind of put it in good perspective, but advertising, and I’m gonna say advertising television, because we’re now you know, we’re hearing about it. And so for me investment
Andrew Corn 28:59
decision, yeah. Now, this is an area that we are very leery of. So placing an ad on cable TV at night is something we want to now why is the ROI may be there or is worth testing, except there, if you were doing an offering. And if you were showing the URL to the offering page, there essentially needs to be one click to the offering circular. And there is no way of doing that. If you’re doing a pre roll, like let’s say it’s a YouTube or you’re on FinTech TV, there may be a way of also having not only a link to the offering page, but a link to the offering circular and that keeps the borders and compliance people happy, which then makes me happy. So we need to be really careful of what we can do from a compliance standpoint. Just like if your call to action going on in emails and learn more, it’s a different compliance case than if you’re saying invest now. So one needs to be very careful and clear of what the call to action is. And then what are the consequences from a compliance standpoint. So TV is something that we love. There’s a lot of use cases that work, but there are a lot of use cases that don’t work. And then of course, there are things that are cost prohibitive as well.
Oscar Jofre 30:28
Yeah, cost is one issue, but I’m gonna bring up the regulatory issue. And that is, there’s a big difference between using television before your capital raise and versus when it’s live. Which is, the SEC is very specific about the fact that on a RegA the investor must have access to that link to the form one. And on television, that’s just not possible. I know most of you will say yes, Oscar, it is the new televisions, I can, yes, the new TVs. But the SEC is not going by, they want either everybody to have it, or you can exclude others from it. So but that was good. But now we’re going to talk about advertising online ads, which again, it sounds like it’s the same, but it’s not. So your comments on that.
Andrew Corn 31:15
So there’s, first of all, online advertising is just so vast. And there, I would break that into probably 10 to 15 different channels. what one does on the web is can be contextual. So if you are placing an ad on a niche site that might also or wouldn’t be unusual for them to cover your issuer. editorially, you may want to send a very different message than you would, let’s say, on a general news site. There are lots of pages that we don’t want to have anything to do with, there’s placement on the page, like, if it’s at the top of the page, you know, they’re going to see it and that is going to fire, you’re going to be charged for that impression. And you know, they saw, if it’s at the bottom of the page, it costs less, but is that ad even as good. So now, I could argue that both ways. First of all, you may end up being charged for the impression, and they never really scrolled down and saw. I could also argue that if they scroll down, and they’re really interested in what they’re reading, and they’re spending time on it, there’s probably a great probability that they’re seeing your ad as well. And your click through rate actually might from an ROI standpoint being that you paid less for it worked out even better. Then there’s a brand safety, it’s like, I want to be all over travel sites as a, for instance, a simple example. But I don’t want to be at the clothing optional sites. Because that is not safe for my brand. Or it might be I don’t want to be going to certain areas of the world where again, I just don’t feel it is brand safe. So there’s a lot of stuff that dealing with brand safety, the placement of the ad, etc. Next thing, which goes to excuse me, messaging an optimization is that size matters. We’d like to work in the smallest ad size when developing our ads, and then build them out to the various sizes. And we may say, gee, this ad is mediocre, compared to this ad with fewer words. But in a large size. Actually, we may get more clicks on that ad, that wind up being clicks to the invest button. Because when they clicked on the ad, they truly understood what they were seeing what they were clicking on, where the one with fewer words may have gotten more clicks, and more visits to the offering page, but they were of lower quality. So there’s an awful lot that’s going on with this to figure out and the size of these ads really make a big difference.
Oscar Jofre 34:10
So it seems like it’s, as you said, advertising online. It’s not just saying hey, I’m gonna put him out in Facebook and away it goes. What I’m hearing in this particular it’s it’s pretty in depth, but we’re giving everybody kind of a sense. Here’s video, email marketing, advertising on television, and when and of course legal. And now advertising online. And I got four more because I’m cognizant of time and
Andrew Corn 34:37
Yeah, you bet. webinars. We could just talk about Facebook for 20 minutes, too.
Oscar Jofre 34:41
Yeah, of course, given the latest fiasco work or Instagram or Tiktok. So yeah, exactly. So you know, the the latest tactical component we’re now seeing is webinars. webinars are now catching on as part of a technique Buy companies. So we’d love to hear your comments on this.
Andrew Corn 35:03
Yeah. So there are two use cases where we really like to leverage the webinar, we’re not big on just saying, Hey, we’re going to do a webinar as a initial touch point with a new prospective investor. We like to use webinars when we’ve gotten lots of people to the offering page, but there hasn’t been an avalanche of people investing yet. Because it may be, we need to invite them to something a little calmer, a little bit more thoughtful, where they’re willing to invest a little bit more time. And then from there, they can go directly to the invest button, because they’ve heard directly from the CEO. They’ve seen things be a little bit more real and dynamic, and less staged and orchestrated the way we generally will do things on an offering pitch. I also mentioned we use webinars for when we get a cluster of people who have clicked invest, but haven’t completed. How is the content different between those two webinars? Because it should be the ask is different. One is a consideration. The other is a completion. So what is the mindset behind that? What are the motivations that we’re seeking? And then what are we going to do from a content standpoint, to achieve each of those two goals? So there’s a lot of science and logic. And as I always say, process behind this, it’s not just Hey, we’re going to put on a webinar. desired result is Oh, is the first thing to think of?
Oscar Jofre 36:37
Yeah, of course, it goes without a doubt. It just it gets people. I hope, if anything, it tells people look, these are all the because some people only think, Oh, it’s got to be email marketing, or no online answers, the only thing and they may not realize that you need a combination of all of them, right, that’s what we’ve learned. Is your ratio, stress, million dollar orchestration, like that word orchestration?
Andrew Corn 37:00
Yeah. So it’s why actually, if someone walked through our process, we have PR and social in there, even though we’re not the ones doing it, not that we don’t interfere in them and also support those efforts. And, you know, we write LinkedIn posts, even though we’re not the PR agency, because we want that for the very first day, we write a lot of things that we want for the first step. And then that’s taken by the PR team and run with. And sometimes they’re ahead of us on that, but we’ll stay away in on those types of things, because they’re highly useful.
Oscar Jofre 37:41
And be said, the next one, I’m gonna obviously this is one we’ve been hearing about for years. Some companies budget big dollars for it’s the influencers, right? This is the big one, this is I get the right influencer, I get the right, you know, movie star, pop star, boom, we saw that in cannabis. And we saw how that played out. But still, I mean, the role of an influencer? Being involved in that what what what are your thoughts on this?
Andrew Corn 38:10
Well, there’s a bunch of different types of influencers, you know, the influencers, who are users of the products who are highly authentic, or one type. If there’s another type of user who is a celebrity, and they’re more pay to play, whether it’s warrants or cash, or whatever it is, you need to be really careful about disclosure, and authenticity. So I’m not against that at all, you know, getting a sports figure or a movie star is certainly a really, really good thing. But you need to be highly strategic, and again, think about the outcome. And do they? Did they buy any of their followers or all their followers are real? You know, and is it on Instagram? Or is it on Twitter? Because again, that’s going to be different thing that you’re going to want them to do? How do you want them to communicate? What do you want them to say? And are they?
Oscar Jofre 39:15
Well, I do I don’t know how you feel. I mean, I like all that. I mean, but the thing is, I think it’s gone even beyond that. I mean, okay, if you’re got a great gadget, but maybe I’m a social and they need to also buy into it, right? They can’t just be influencing something and then oh, yeah, I don’t know what that is say, you know, they save the earth and then they see pictures of them throwing out paper out on the street, or,
Andrew Corn 39:40
well, that’s what I meant by all and they need to really have their heart in it or it doesn’t usually work.
Oscar Jofre 39:46
Yeah, it’s a great point. So, you know, I brought in a special guest just to stir it up a bit. And I’m going to ask our guests I brought in a CEO of a company that is going to be going live on a RegA. And, you know this for for any young company or any company of any type. It’s it’s a lot, you know, to digest all the different elements that they need to do. And obviously, when you have already current shareholders, everybody’s looking at your business and saying, Wow, you’re going to spend all that money. I mean, but there was something you said early in the conversation that I’m going to bring back, Andrew, because it actually made me think about something that you know, we’ve been, we’ve been focusing a lot in, in Trump, I’m going to bring you in it, just it, I can’t let it go. And that is that whenever we talk to people about RegA, or reg CF, but RegA in particular people go in some general disguise all it is so much money that you got to spend and, you know, it, you know, it’s cheaper and lower on the other side, in you then started saying, Oscar, you guys just closed your reg D, he started saying how many phone calls? How many emails, and, and webinars and all that, and I’m going I it’s not any cheaper. In fact, it’s, the meetings are ongoing. Sometimes it could be three, four times, it could be months before they make their decision. And when they do, then they Well, you know, it’s COVID-19, the pricings gotta be different. Why? So, I, I’m going to, we’re going to do a webinar on that, because I think it’s important people understand that every form of capital raising
Andrew Corn 41:54
has a cost. Well, when we talked about VCs, one of the great things that the attorney who was on the webinar with us said is that the VC submits to you a term sheet. And in the case of a RegA or reg CF, you’re the one submitting the term sheet. And people can either invest or not invest, but you’re not going to change that for an individual investor. So although I will say there are cases where a well investors come in may not sound invest in wells, a very large investor, physically the size of their check. And then sometimes they want to invest in the RegA and there’ll be a separate offering just for them. And there might be some terms that are changed on that. But by and large people investing in a RegA, it’s a one size fits all. And there’s a really nice thing about that.
Oscar Jofre 42:50
That’s great. All right, so I brought in our special guests. Love your background. Thanks. Yeah, I was just gonna say he lived it up. I mean, I’m celebrating, you know, Chinese New Year’s senior quite low for everyone wishing everyone a prosperous fortunate New Year in 2021. So the the, I invited Trung, again, because of where he’s at. He’s just full disclosure for everyone. Tron is a client of KoreConX. So I just want to make sure that I make every meaning he’s using some art technology. But that’s not what we’re here to talk about. Trung is in a unique individual entrepreneur that Andrew and I and Andrew you’ve not met Trung yet? Right?
Trung Pham 43:38
I’ve I’ve actually, I’ve actually spoken with you. Yes. Oh, it was okay. It may have been a different background. So you may have not recognized it. But this is my trademark background to everyone recognize, but we did speak. And you were actually the one that introduced me to, not directly to KoreConX, but you told me to look into them. And I reached out to them thereafter.
Andrew Corn 43:58
something helpful, I’m glad about
Oscar Jofre 43:59
Yeah. There you are, again, I gotta give you another checkmark. And now behind again, just when I thought it was gonna get you know, but um, so the thing that it’s interesting in Trung’s journey is that here’s a CEO, doing the journey of getting his capital raise, and putting all the pieces together. But this discussion is really predominantly around the investor acquisition. And obviously, Andrew and I’ve been talking about the different tactical elements. But I’m bringing you in, because you’re at that stage now where you’re days away from getting the approval, which is great. So we can talk. We can freely talk right now because once you live, we can’t do this with you. So it’s an opportunity to, but first introduce yourself. Tell everybody, you know what your company’s doing, and then we’re going to dive into it. Okay. Great. So
Trung Pham 44:53
my name is Trung Pham. I’m the CEO of a company called rise. We’re actually based in Toronto. So we’re a Canadian issuer. makes us a little unique compared to the Americans. And we’re a tech company in the IoT Smart Home space. So we design hardware and connected devices that allow you to motorize and automate your window blinds, shades, any type of window covering. Right now we have one product in the market, we’re launching another one. And we’re in development of a few more, that all revolve around window coverings. Our first markets is the residential market. But we have plans to launch into the commercial real estate market a little by little bit background about where we are in terms of traction. We did raise from a lot of angels and micro VCs about 3.5. us. And we did receive just over $4 million Canadian in federal clean tech grants to begin expanding into commercial real estate revenues is just north of 4.5 million us all online. So we haven’t even scratched the surface, because we do have plans to launch into other channels like retailer and b2b and whatnot.
Oscar Jofre 46:05
Great, thank you. So that kind of tells now you know who I know. And now I remember now, I remember your website, too. Yeah. And and you said talk to Oscar because fellow Canadians, is that what he did put the Canadian together? No,
Andrew Corn 46:24
no, it’s because your service is good.
Oscar Jofre 46:26
Yeah. Yeah. You know, we want rebound. Right? You know,
Andrew Corn 46:30
we’re really nice people, everyone in the US worries about the Canadians coming and attacking us. So they’re coming. They’re coming. They’re coming. I know you’re coming. We’re anticipating that
Oscar Jofre 46:44
this conversation, I want to leave it to both of you. because let me tell you where I’m coming with this, the drunks coming in, through the RegA doing a lot of research, like most CEOs reading everything they can get their hands on. And so I’m gonna start with before you started your RegA, did you understand all the book first, did you even know that was a heading called investor acquisition? This is important for us and good because they will tell us the car much more education we have ahead of us. And then the next component to that con will be once you get dive in, did you understand all the different tactical elements and how they’re going to work for you, and how a firm like Andrew works with you to accomplish that goal.
Trung Pham 47:31
So I actually didn’t learn like know the term that the players in the space called it investor acquisition, I actually just call it an investor acquisition. And the reason is because our company is strictly DTC direct to consumer. So we’re ecommerce and we will require customers, it’s called customer acquisition. So in this case, I just called an investor acquisition, because it makes logical sense you’re acquiring customers online, using the same methods that we would acquire a customer online using, you know, Facebook ads, paid media, on PBS, stuff like that. So when we looked at the whole RegA space that we discovered that you could do general solicitation and acquire investors, using the same type of strategy that we did in the e commerce space, we basically took a took a look at what we did in the e commerce space and applied it to investor acquisition. So obviously, there’s more compliance and regulations around that. But the strategies and the tactics are very similar.
Oscar Jofre 48:36
Perfect, so. Okay, so this talk to you were similar. So Still, the obviously you now understand that it wasn’t just the tactical elements, but there’s that regulatory process for it. How have you been blending in? And, obviously, I mean, Andrew as, as each client, I’m going to go back and forth with the both of you on this. But the question that I want to come in afterwards, his answer is, as a client, like Khan comes in, who has a bit of understanding, does that make it easier? Or does it actually make it harder because they already out? So probably I’m going to go back to you first to complete that answer. And then we’re going to go to Andrew
Trung Pham 49:20
well, because we have experienced with e commerce and the idea of the funnel itself, it was more attractive, attractive to us to raise using this strategy. You know, I always hear the the the saying like, if you build it, they will come. So if you just listed on a third party platform, investors will come he’s never like that. So you always have to drive traffic to your landing page or to to your offering. So So yeah, that was kind of our ideal round that
Oscar Jofre 49:54
anger. It’s your sir.
Andrew Corn 49:56
So we either have the best experience or the worst experience with companies who have a direct consumer business. One of the things that makes it a great experience is that there are a lot of the language that we use that is similar and familiar. Second is, is that there’s overlapping skill sets, which either works out really well or really poorly. We have clients right now who are coding things for us. Or, as I said, we build an ad in one size, and they’re building out the additional sizes for us. So that can work out really well save the client money, have everyone involved. Where it doesn’t work out well is when their marketing department doesn’t understand that we are mercenaries, we’re here for the offering, we’re not here to take over their jobs. We’re not here to replace anyone, we’re coming in for one thing, which is to help them acquire investors. The funnel for investor acquisition is different than for customer acquisition, the number of touch points, the length, the motivations, all those things are different. So when a direct to consumer issuer understands that we end up working really well together, we have a specific issue where were their internal team used our messaging brief, and they created ads, we created ads, and then we blended them. And in that blending, I honestly when I see an ad live now, because it’s a lot, it’s a live offering. I don’t remember, nor do I care who wrote that line. Because we’re working as a team towards one goal, when it becomes competitive than it’s a nightmare client. So shouldn’t be competitive, though, right? Andrew? It should, because we’re all rowing the boat together, aiming to get to the same destination. So when it’s done collaboratively, that’s great. But you know, whenever there are humans involved, there can be really great things, and there can be some not great things. So that’s really where that goes, or when budget discussions happen. And, you know, sometimes the direct to consumer company is like, wow, you’re putting all this money towards online advertising, not for the product, but to raise the money. And it’s like, yeah, you’re going to raise the money so that you can put all the money to that advertising for direct to consumer. So don’t be resentful of putting money towards it. Now. Now I run a what’s called a radically transparent company, we don’t pay for any of the media, nor do we do media markup. So we make sure that the client can pay for everything directly. That doesn’t necessarily make that palatable to every team member, even though it does to the CEO and the CFO. So that’s where things can run into trouble or where they can be fabulous.
Trung Pham 53:04
I think, um, I want to add to that, I think a lot of them, I actually agree 100%, with Andrew there. But I want to make a point that everything, Andrew does this with his firm, but everything should be data driven, if the e commerce company understands the funnel. So as Andrew mentioned, if we’re running ads, and we have our messaging, and Andrew has his messaging, we’re not gonna we’re not gonna crash heads, if Andrews conversions are better, because it’s all in the data you want the highest ROI as. So if you’re spending $1, Andrews getting $10, I’m getting $5, there should be no human element that that is getting angry and mad, because you know, they’re performing less, I’d rather just offload it to Andrew because he’s getting me 10 times more money. The second thing is that the e commerce companies has to understand that these investors are also going to be your customers or your promoters. So they’re going to share the company on their social platforms or to their clients. And that’s going to drive you to more traffic, and even more customers in the long run. So investor acquisition is also customer acquisition, for a direct to consumer company like ours. That’s the way we see things. And that’s the way they should see it because your investors are going to be the ones that promote you to their friends, family and to their networks. And
Oscar Jofre 54:16
on Okay, sorry, I
Andrew Corn 54:17
really in your case, I really agree because of the maturity level of someone who probably, I don’t mean days and years, but someone who’s going to utilize your product. So they’re gonna have a more sophisticated audience, the odds of them being someone who would invest in a private offering, I think is a much higher probability than some of the other direct to consumer issuers that I’ve seen. So, you know, I think that we would be in sync like that, and we could have a great conversation around that. But there are direct consumer companies where we actually had one successful RegA, but most of their People in their database were not investors. Either they weren’t affluent enough, or they were too young. And you know, that made blasting out to 220,000 people highly unsuccessful. In fact, we created an alternative landing page, so that we could throw away the data or not utilize that data in lookalike advertising, and other places where we might want to leverage it. So, you know, there’s a lot of things that need to be thought through, depending upon the issuer, I think you’re a unique case that you totally get the data. You’re driven by ROI. So you know, I commend you on everything you said, and that you have absolutely the right attitudes.
Oscar Jofre 55:46
So, so my question here, so this is an interesting one, that there are some dynamics sometimes, I know, I, internally, I had to adjust myself as well, that disc marketing, we were going to keep it here to stay, you know, focused on that, while this marketing for new investor position, we’re going to keep it separate, but some people want and but I think as Tom mentioned, you have to be data driven. Otherwise, you want to achieve your goal. I mean, like I tell anyone, what’s the most important thing? Do you want to get everybody to know that you’re using blockchain? Or do you want to raise the money? Because I know I’m bringing that subject up, because it does make a difference. You know, you want to that, okay, not a problem, that route is going to cost you a lot of dollars, but go there, no problem. And on this one, you want to raise money. Okay, let’s get to it. Here’s the tactical elements. So. So now that you’ve gone through this journey, krung, you’ve spoken to tremendous amount of players, what has changed from your strategy initially, from what you have from an e commerce that you’ve added? Or you’re thinking of adding? And have you considered the fact that the the ones that you’re not using now, you’re going to be adding along the way, because, you know, the data we already have data driven, is that we know the path to eventually cause the offering. But I’d love to hear your comments.
Trung Pham 57:13
So I think the great thing about the whole RegA process is that it’s a 12 month process. So you’re allowed to raise for up to 12 months. So I always say it’s a marathon, not a sprint. And your your marketing strategy for one quarter might be different for the other quarter. And you might need time to test and scale and change your strategy over time. So I don’t think it’s, you know, I signed on agency. And that’s it. It’s a really iterative process, just like any ads, you might be testing new audiences, new strategies, you have unpaid channels, you have paid channels, you’re going to test and see what works. You know, we might place an ad in a online newsletter, for example, and test the conversions on that. And then we might, just like Andrew said, the placement would be higher might be lower. And the cost would be different, but we’ll test that. But for us, it’s a 12 month process. So what we have initially today, it may change three months from now. So that’s the first thing I will say about investor acquisition. And I did want to make a comment, you mentioned something earlier about the whole cost of the RegA. And it always perplexes me, but if you actually look at the cost of a seed round or series A, it’s probably just as expensive as launching a RegA just to give people perspective, because when we got our bill for our seed round, it was on par with our RegA, the difference is that the fees are on the back end. But if you’re a shrewd enough CEO, you can negotiate with the auditor, and you can negotiate with your lawyers to pay at the backend as well. So I think it’s going to be one of those processes that the cost of friend is going to not it’s not gonna be a barrier for a lot of the issues going forward. If you’re, you know, if you find a great audio great, Laurie on that.
Oscar Jofre 58:53
No, I think that’s a good point, too. And I think part of it is education. I think people have this illusion. And we need to remind them, because they don’t think of the soft costs. See when people do reg D offerings, as Andrew was alluding to, he has to remind you of so how many phone calls did you make? How many emails did you do? How many documents Did you How many times did you redo the deck? you redo the term sheet? How many times did you call your lawyer to redo this? Isn’t that right? RegA you submit to the SEC, boom, you got qualified, it’s finito. Let’s go live. Now. It’s the investor.
Andrew Corn 59:32
You know, I want to underscore some of what’s been said is, you know, we were selling along in March of last year, and then this thing happened called a global pandemic. And we actually turned off all of our outreach but continued our retargeting and remarketing. And then we retooled all of our messaging. Then the summer came, and we actually had a fairly warm summer in the US, and that actually changed From messengering again, and here we are in a cold spell, at least in New York. And depending upon who the issuer is, that may change our messaging yet again. So the evolution and the downside of having the 12 months is that you’re going to wind up changing your messaging, and it’s going to evolve within the frameworks to the issuer, and with the frameworks of what’s compliant. So there is it’s not a one and done, where you’re doing your messaging. And off it goes. It’s a test measure, refined, optimized world, and evolving for your dog.
Oscar Jofre 1:00:41
So actually, I like the way you said that, because sometimes I have to constantly remind companies every single time they come to us, and we go, look, when you come into this, you may start with this tactic, but you need to be fluid in changing and, again, revising it. I mean, we see a number of our clients starting with, you know, the video and a bit of social media, then they pivot to adding a little bit email marketing. And now from that they go for a few months, and now they’re doing some online ads, and then they’re moving in from online ads to webinars, it’s so it’s really fluid. Some The only challenge I see with that, there, too, if you don’t strategize is sort of like, when you’re, you’re you’re going to run and, you know, marathon, you know, you got to run 26 miles, you’re not going to do that 26 miles today. But you’re going to run each day, knowing that you’re getting through that hurdle to get to that end goal. But you know, the final goal, sometimes I feel people are doing, Oh, I got to try this new technique. But there was no strategy for it. I want to emphasize, I don’t know, what do you think about that, Andrew, because I’ve seen that?
Andrew Corn 1:01:52
Well, you know, coming up coming out of asset management, people invest in what they call the hot.oh, let’s put money in GameStop, let’s put money in Bitcoin. It is better to have a strategy of getting to your end result than it is chasing things. And Oscar, you’ll call me and say I’ve got an issuer and they’re struggling. And, you know, they’re looking for something new. And I always push back and say, I really don’t want to speak to that issuer. Because if they’re looking for something new, that’s what they’re, you know, if they have a strategy, and they have discipline they’re going to get and they’re worthy assure they’re going to get to where they’re going, and they’re going to raise their money. But if they’re jumping around and not discipline, then they’re not going to end up raising their money.
Oscar Jofre 1:02:42
You know what I agree with you on that one, I am seeing that firsthand. When you’re constantly just looking without and part of it. We didn’t have this information before. So this is not to blame, you need to see us I want to be clear for anybody who’s live listening to this or thinking this was not available to us before a lot of this was kind of it. You know, when we entered the market for a red day, we started finding a cool department we there was no one website you can go to to find out who they all are we created one all the all the people we’ve vetted in that have done a RegA are there, all this information was public anyway, it just was very difficult to find. And but even with all that, that was one part. But then the second part was nobody was really telling you anything about how they did it, or you know, they were kind of tucked away, not specific. But now the more offerings are being done, we have an opportunity to engage with the CEOs and ask Okay, what did you do? Was it planned? Was it part of the plan? Or was it just something you needed to, let’s say, pivot to make it work? And so I’m sorry. And
Andrew Corn 1:03:51
yeah, I want to share the best question a issuer’s ever asked me, they said, What’s the largest raise you ever worked on? And it was a successful billion dollar raise for real estate. And then they asked the question that just shook me that stays with me to this day, they said, how influential was what you did your data, your messaging, your funnel, your constant optimization? Was it just the right issuer at the right moment with the right offering? Or did you have enormous influence on it? And the answer that I gave and that I still stand by his Yes. Meaning it was the right issuer with the right offering at the right time, and we had tremendous influence, and that it would have taken much longer without us and may have not raised the full amount without us. But all those things part of the orchestration is the issuer. You know, here we’re on screen with a good issuer with a good product. I was very impressed with what your company does. So you know, I speak to issuers and I’m not so impressed. And those are the ones who you know, eventually that we have a conversation with, or we just declined to submit a proposal. So, you know, all those things have to be in alignment, because you could have the best marketing and the best investor acquisition the best PR, if the offerings not right, for that moment in time, it’s just not going to sell. It’s really that’s part of the orchestration of office
Oscar Jofre 1:05:32
and trunk for you now that you now understand how it all works. Deep, have you created a passive income stream, you know, all the way through? Or are? Are you going to navigate doing testing and seeing what is going to work for you, I mean, based on what you’re hearing today,
Trung Pham 1:05:50
so I have, I create different buckets of the the tactics to employ. And it’s all spaced out over time. But just like Andrew said, when he when we’re talking about testing the audition, that’s specific to the ads. And it’s also common ecommerce, like you’re going to run a different ad during Valentine’s Day, during Father’s Day, during Mother’s Day, during summer, during winter, depending on your product in your company. The same thing is going to happen in, in my opinion with investor acquisition. And Andrew already mentioned that, you know, you have to change your ad every so often, depending on how, how the data gets back to you. So when we’re talking about just media buying and ads, that will be an iterative process. But when we’re talking about who we’re going to target for like paid paid media, or newsletters, or influencers or anything like that, that’s already laid out.
Andrew Corn 1:06:44
Sure, I’d love to have this conversation 12 weeks from now. And see how it’s going feel free to reach out to me as a soundboard. Because I’ll be fascinated someone with your skill set how you’re doing?
Oscar Jofre 1:07:01
Yeah, the key is, so obviously we discuss it, I invest rock positions, it is the key to getting noticed for your RegA, there’s so many other components to it, that we didn’t get a chance to touch on today. But you know, we talked about video, email marketing, advertising, on TV, online ads, we talked about webinars, and we talked about influencers. But there’s also, you know, newsletters, you know, you know, Angel groups, there’s a whole bunch of different tactical elements that are complemented that are part of the investor acquisition that need to be considered. And there’s no way that you can think of all of them on your own. I just, that’s not possible. I mean, I, I been compiling this over time. And I feel that this is the only way we’re going to be able to reach the larger audience, meaning the student 33 million Americans that can invest in RegA plus today, and we haven’t even scratched the surface yet. And it’s just getting started. And that’s just them. We have now seen, you know, institutional money coming in, and investing in RegA, that’s a game changer. So that means that the work that people like Andrew Koerner doing, he is working for companies like Tron, who are trying to get this awareness, because in the internet, I have to remind everyone, you’re not just a needle in a haystack, you’ve got to first find the bloody haystack. And then maybe we’ll find a needle. You know, that expression if you knew, I go back one more later, which haystack and not with a browser. So
Andrew Corn 1:08:49
yeah, we had a 16 months ago, we had a RegA assure, someone saw the ad, they clicked on it went to the offering page tracked down the CEO, they’re an institutional investor, and created their own mini offering, because they write checks in the millions of dollars. And it would have never happened, it would have never met if it wasn’t for the retail online presence, but also for the way we surround that correct data set with different types of online media. So, you know, that has already been happening, it will continue to happen. We have massive data on family offices, endowments, and foundations, public funds, because we solicit them for asset managers. So we’re just sitting on that data. And those who are seeing our presentation, we bifurcate the world, professional investors, not professional investors. But we could hit every single private equity commercial real estate person in the US because I already have all that data. It doesn’t. It’s something that we market to them all the time. With a product like yours, now, will they invest with their personal account? Maybe we’ll might that influence them to do something with you professionally as well. Who knows. But thinking about that, and thinking that through from a data standpoint, and not just looking at retail, but also realizing that institutions or individuals as well, is just another part of the data mindset.
Oscar Jofre 1:10:30
Perfect. I, you know, I think today, which kind of threw a little ball at Yeah, right. Bring in a special guest. I think it’s good to hear from somebody, and I specifically brought on because of all the CEOs you and I’ve experienced over the years, and now with RegA, we don’t get many like you. We don’t, then it’s refreshing, because you’re prepared. And you understand the cost of the mechanism. So you appreciate the value. Investor acquisition can bring to you, and what value you bring, because I grew constantly and not just Enderby, industry sunpro deal with this thing where people think it’s just all all you’re gonna do is send me an email. And that’s it. No, they don’t actually understand that there’s a crafting to this thing, right? Like I go to and when I need help. I mean, I’m doing a couple of things right now going today. I said, I need three favors, because I know he’s good at that. We’re good at what we do. But he’s good at what he does. Right? And there are these like that. So I appreciate both of you trolling. Especially for short notice coming in like this today. I love your background. By the way. I’d love to say thanks. It’s good to see that. I
Andrew Corn 1:11:45
want to know how it’s summer out the window. You’re out your kitchen window and chief that no one you’re in Canada. It’s just amazing.
Trung Pham 1:11:52
It’s cold as hell today, just like negative 20 or something.
Andrew Corn 1:11:57
Green out that window. But yeah.
Oscar Jofre 1:12:01
But it’s gorgeous, though. It’s gorgeous. Gorgeous, gorgeous. Those Sunny, beautiful. I bet it is cold. It is cold outside. Until you say I was going out. You kidding, Andrew? Great. As always, I can’t wait to have you back again. We have another great webinar with you coming up in February. For everyone else. Thank you so much. We went over today and it was I do apologize for that. But sometimes that happens. We’re not structured. We’re just gonna have a great chat with you. This afternoon. We have another webinar how Canadian companies can use RegA. Yes, Canadian companies. That’s right. Only US and Canadian based companies can use it. Until then I just want to say thank you to everyone. Have a fantastic week. And Andrew from we’ll see you again soon.